WINCHESTER WWII M97 RIOT GUN

[browningautorifle]

the bead blasting would probably would reduce the depth of the proof marks

Silica glass beads don't abrade, that's sand blasting that removed metal. We've done lots of glass beading that cleans out marks and enhances. Use a fine silica glass bead...

Sarco shows a repro, perhaps you could pilfer the ventilated part and spot them together? Don't know how good they are.

Winchester 97 Trench Gun Bayonet Lug Heat Shield With Screws (W97058)

Then there's these, I had one in hand for Mod 12 and they aren't bad. https://www.partsforantiqueguns.com/winreparts.html

[Tom Doniphon]

The butt plate looks like the type used by the military to replace the original Winchester black plastic butt plates when they broke. These replacement butt plates have a widow's peak on top which requires some handywork on the top of the stock near the butt to make it fit properly. Does your butt plate have this widow's peak? The entire stock could have been replaced which may account for it not having a cartouche.

The gun falls into the serial number range of the WW2 Model 97 trench guns. However, if the barrel does not have the 3 transverse grooves cut into the underside to accommodate the bayonet adaptor screws, then it is a riot gun barrel. That means it was originally a riot gun or somewhere along the way a riot barrel was installed on it. I would think twice before modifying the gun to trench gun configuration. You might actually be destroying its history. Besides, the W marked bayonet adaptor is not correct for this gun. Even if it was originally a trecnh gun it certainly would never have had the W marked parkerized adaptor.

[Madcap]

Thanks very much for the info on the bead blasting and butt plate. The fact bead blasting would prepare the re-parkering with any damage to the surface is encouraging if i finally decide to re- finish it.

The decision of modifying from an original Riot to Trench has had me question whether it would be proper also, and does give me pause for consideration. The reason I considered the mod was the sloppy finish and lack of confirmation of an original stock. The butt plate does have the widows peak you mention and the top end of the stock is cut out to fit it. However I removed the stock and found whoever drilled the stock missed the top hole and scabbed a small, really sloppy repair.
If the "W" adapter indicated isn't correct for the later Trench guns do you know when it was used? Also to clarify the barrel underside doesn't have the three grooves cut for the adapter. The serial No. indicates post war manufacture of 1948 or '49 depending on the source.

I'll add a couple photos later tomorrow.



Cheers

[browningautorifle]

You can correct poorly drilled screw holes without too much problem and then redo them correctly.

[Madcap]

Yes sir, I've repaired poorly lined up drilled holes and will properly fix this one as well. I've also begun pulling some of the gun oil out of the stock and will refinish it with linseed oil unless it was originally varnished....not sure.

I hope to find a copy of Joe Poyer's book to try to answer my own questions without trying to depend on internet info the but so far way out of a realistic price range.

Dick

[Tom Doniphon]

Parkerized W marked bayonet adaptors were originally only used on the last few thousand Model 12 trench guns made during WWII that had a factory parkerized finish.

If the barrel doesn't have the 3 cuts for the adaptor screws, then it is a riot barrel. Also, a real Model 97 trench gun barrel would not have a front bead sight.

The sources you are using to determine the date of the gun are incorrect. Most of the production tables out there are wrong. The best source to determine a date of manufacture for a Winchester firearm is the Winchester Polishing Room serialization records which show the exact date the serial number was applied to the receiver. According to those records your gun was made in 1942. Military contracts for the Model 97 were completed well before the end of WWII.

[Madcap]

Thanks Tom - You obviously have a been a student of these weapons a while and just the guy someone like me would need to know. All these years of owning my M97 have never peaked my interest more than now. I guess the older I get the more I appreciate. Anyway, I'm think I'm more inclined to leave my M97 in it's original condition rather than converting it, although it's remains a bit tempting. However, nothing will be done to it other than usual attention and care of it in it's current condition at the moment.

I'd like to acquire some spare parts and was thinking of an extra extractor, ejector, sear and trigger spring. If you could suggest or advise anything please let me know. It's always functioned fine the few times I've taken it out including occasional slam firing but hesitate to subject it to that type of abuse anymore.

Best,

Dick

[browningautorifle]

I'd like to acquire some spare parts

Here are some choices, since you're US you can actually get these.

Winchester Model 1897 Parts | Old Arms of Idaho

Winchester 1897 Original and Reproduction Firearm Gun Parts Winchester, HOMESTEAD GUN PARTS, Specializing in Old Winchester

Winchester Model 97 1897

[Madcap]

If you or Tom cold recommend what spare parts to consider best I'd appreciate it. Thanks for the sources.

[browningautorifle]

Honestly? I have a friend uses a '97 for Cowboy action shooting and says his doesn't need anything. He's put hundreds through it in short order without failures too... I wouldn't accumulate parts that may not ever break down and then when you want them you can't find them anyway. There's no telling what will give out or maybe nothing will. How much will you actually shoot this one?