Three Lee Enfield Carbines

[Promo]

I don't know Doug Munroe and his book, thanks for pointing it out. Can you tell him of my rifle?


Thanks for the picture of this D ring, now I understand what he was referring to.

Information

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[tatou]

I don't know Doug Munroe and his book, thanks for pointing it out. Can you tell him of my rifle?

Looking at the forum it looks like he hasn't been on here for over a year.... Hopefully nothing bad happened to him.
The small survey he takes for each rifles was something like 12 specifications he needs so it would be best if you contacted him.
His email is listed in his posts so i guess it should be ok if i give it to you here : Dpmunro9@gmail.com
Here's a shot of his book.

[coggansfield]

Promo, it’s Doug Munro here. I hate to bump an old thread but only just stumbled on this.

These are great pics. As Tatou mentioned, I do have a couple of booklets on NZ carbines (PDFs here: Douglas Munro - Academia.edu). I’m also writing a book for Headstamp Publishing on RIC carbines (expected summer 2025). I can answer your questions about carbine issue 9571.

The date 3 '05 is not strictly speaking the issue date. This is the date the carbine was received at the armourer’s office at the RIC depot at Phoenix Park, Dublin. It would have got into the hands of actual police a month or so later. The armourer, Sgt. Archibald J. Crichton, had only one assistant. It took them a while to process these things.

The carbine was originally a 1901-made LEC Mk I*. The butt is not original, being taken from a Lee-Metford carbine. This swap would have been done as part of an overhaul in 1903, conducted at the Birmingham Repair Facility, which shared factory premises with RSAF Sparkbrook. This 1903 overhaul was not the carbine’s conversion. Rather, it was a servicing the carbine got after its withdrawal from service in South Africa. All cavalry carbines were withdrawn, given their crappy performance during the Boer War. Starting in October 1900, they were shipped back to Britain. Carbines in service at home were also withdrawn. The last British mounted unit to retain them was the Household Cavalry, which used them for ceremonial purposes until spring 1904. (This service-wide withdrawal is why there were so many of these things available for conversion to the police model a little while later.) The carbines were sent to the BRF for cleaning and repairs, where many received new butts or were reassembled with incorrect butts. It was at the BRF that they got the dated Birmingham roundels on the butt.

After getting the once-over at the BRF, the carbines went for storage at Weedon for a couple of years before returning to the BRF for conversion for the RIC. The “BR” stamps on the right of the nocksform and the left of the buttsocket were applied at this time. The carbines began to be shipped to Dublin in March 1904, though they did not get into the hands of the first police until May 1904. The last of them were distributed in June 1905 in County Wexford.

Until the Anglo-Irish War (1919-21), the carbines were virtually never fired — which is why most are in such good condition today. The RIC used them until about October 1920. Most were sent back to Enfield for scrapping then. But the ones in Ulster were held back for use by the Ulster Special Constabulary (about 3,000 of them, I estimate), a part-time force that existed until 1970. The USC used them until about February 1922. After that, they seem to have gone into storage in Northern Ireland. They were hauled out again for use by the Ulster Home Guard in WWII. They ended up almost certainly at Weedon again after the war. Weedon’s contents were auctioned off in the early 1960s just prior to its closure, at which point two Americans appear to have bought them all (Bill Edwards and Val Forgett). Just about all the survivors have civilian proof marks dating that sale to 1961.

Promo, if these pics are yours, may I use them in the book? If they are not yours, can you tell me where you got them, please? Thanks v. much — Coggo

P.S. The sling is a homemade after-market addition. No RIC carbine is known to have its original sling (the RIC had a unique sling pattern), but some have Home Guard webbing slings.