Marine scout sniper book "40 Thieves in Saipan"

[Jim Tarleton]

All Marine scout snipers are volunteers and have been since day one in WWI. MOS 8541 (now MOS 0317 I believe) is a secondary MOS, not a primary assigned MOS like the MOS assigned to you out of Boot Camp. Also, you have seen Division "diaries" that list Marines by MOS? They don't even do that on a company level (rosters). Marines are listed by name, rank, and serial number with a notation of WIA, KIA, or UA if applicable, with a notation if transferred.

Your 95 yr old friend had to have some rank before he volunteered as a SS. If you look at the USMC description of a SS, it is all about an individual capable of placing accurate long range fire to disrupt enemy actions, and if my memory serves me correctly, doesn't even mention the scouting side of the duties. If you read presentations from guys like Eric England (98 CK), Carlos Hathcock (93 CK), and McElhinney (103 CK). not one of them ever mentions scouting duties at all.

There were 3 sniper schools in WWII, Camp Pendleton, Camp Lejeune, and Quantico. When you say New River, I assume you are referring to Stoney Point. Technically, New River is an Air Station. In WWII, Eric England commanded Stoney Point for a couple of years before he went to the Pacific. I suspect Eric England knew very little about scouting. Recruits were not sent to sniper school if they were the best shots in the company. There was a list of qualifications that had to be met, and no one went to sniper school straight out of Boot Training. But...of those that volunteered, being a great shot was obviously the best way to get into the school. As for your statement, "He was like most snipers who never saw a scoped M1903 after he left Sniper School", I cannot comprehend how you would know that. It is complete BS.

I think your posts do a disservice to the brave men who worked their butts off doing a very dangerous job. By the way, how did you get a living Marine's service records?

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[cplstevennorton]

All Marine scout snipers are volunteers and have been since day one in WWI. MOS 8541 (now MOS 0317 I believe) is a secondary MOS, not a primary assigned MOS like the MOS assigned to you out of Boot Camp. Also, you have seen Division "diaries" that list Marines by MOS? They don't even do that on a company level (rosters). Marines are listed by name, rank, and serial number with a notation of WIA, KIA, or UA if applicable, with a notation if transferred.

Your 95 yr old friend had to have some rank before he volunteered as a SS. If you look at the USMC description of a SS, it is all about an individual capable of placing accurate long range fire to disrupt enemy actions, and if my memory serves me correctly, doesn't even mention the scouting side of the duties. If you read presentations from guys like Eric England (98 CK), Carlos Hathcock (93 CK), and McElhinney (103 CK). not one of them ever mentions scouting duties at all.

There were 3 sniper schools in WWII, Camp Pendleton, Camp Lejeune, and Quantico. When you say New River, I assume you are referring to Stoney Point. Technically, New River is an Air Station. In WWII, Eric England commanded Stoney Point for a couple of years before he went to the Pacific. I suspect Eric England knew very little about scouting. Recruits were not sent to sniper school if they were the best shots in the company. There was a list of qualifications that had to be met, and no one went to sniper school straight out of Boot Training. But...of those that volunteered, being a great shot was obviously the best way to get into the school. As for your statement, "He was like most snipers who never saw a scoped M1903 after he left Sniper School", I cannot comprehend how you would know that. It is complete BS.

I think your posts do a disservice to the brave men who worked their butts off doing a very dangerous job. By the way, how did you get a living Marine's service records?

Jim,

You are saying a lot of info here, but unfortunately you are confusing a lot of data. You are sort of taking different eras of the Marine Scout Sniper program and combining them into one confused mash up. Otherwise you are not breaking down each era into the correct individual era, which it was. Each war was completely different for the program. Actually it changed every few months during the wars.

Even the most basic info you are stating above I'm sorry to say is not correct. Such as you saying the MOS numbers for a Scout Sniper in WWII. A WWII Marine Scout Sniper was not a MOS 8541.

They were a MOS 761.

The rest of the info on how the program worked, how records were kept, how data is listed, I'm sorry to say nearly everything you stated above is just not correct.

There are substantial new amounts of research available. Even if someone can't get to the Archives, Andrew, Tim, and myself have posted thousands of documents online since you have been gone and you can find many with a simple google search.