BLIMEY THAT WAS CLOSE RUSSIAN SU27 v RAF 135 RIVET

[Flying10uk]

The thing is, as I understand it, the airframes are nearly 60 years old on the 3 Joint Rivet aircraft that the RAF have. The Nimrod R1's were constructed in the early to mid 1970's and, therefore, were significantly younger (in years).

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[Bob Womack]

The thing is, as I understand it, the airframes are nearly 60 years old on the 3 Joint Rivet aircraft that the RAF have. The Nimrod R1's were constructed in the early to mid 1970's and, therefore, were significantly younger (in years).

I understand. You know, airframe designs have varying degrees of success and a large fleet contributes to problem-solving that refines a design as well. Overall, there were more than 1200 of the 707s and 720 shorter variants built. The C-135 frame was based upon the 707 prototype, the 367-80, which turned out to be an incredibly robust basic design. By the way, the three airframes that went into the Joint Rivet aircraft were the three youngest C-135 aiframes in the USAF inventory, having all been built in 1964.

Bob

[GeeRam]

The thing is, as I understand it, the airframes are nearly 60 years old on the 3 Joint Rivet aircraft that the RAF have. The Nimrod R1's were constructed in the early to mid 1970's and, therefore, were significantly younger (in years).

While the Nimrods may have been built later, the 3 x 135's had been massively upgraded and refurbed already during their lives, including the engine upgrade to the CFM's, so in lifed terms, they were in fact younger than the Nimrods.
The Nimrods hadn't had any mid-life upgrade to the airframes etc., only the operational electronic systems suite, when upgraded from MR1 to MR2 in the 70's. The idea was they didn't need it as there was going to be the MRA4.
Thus the 3 x remaining R1 aircraft which were as originally built were pretty close to the end of their lives without a major refurb.....and after the MRA4 mess (not all BAe's fault by any means) this wasn't going to happen for just 3 x airframes, it would have been stupidly expensive, so after a 12 month or so extension they had to go.

[mrclark303]

While the Nimrods may have been built later, the 3 x 135's had been massively upgraded and refurbed already during their lives, including the engine upgrade to the CFM's, so in lifed terms, they were in fact younger than the Nimrods.
The Nimrods hadn't had any mid-life upgrade to the airframes etc., only the operational electronic systems suite, when upgraded from MR1 to MR2 in the 70's. The idea was they didn't need it as there was going to be the MRA4.
Thus the 3 x remaining R1 aircraft which were as originally built were pretty close to the end of their lives without a major refurb.....and after the MRA4 mess (not all BAe's fault by any means) this wasn't going to happen for just 3 x airframes, it would have been stupidly expensive, so after a 12 month or so extension they had to go.

It's certainly a vexing one, I spoke to someone a few years back who was closely involved with the MR4A project.

Without really getting into it, had due diligence been observed early on, it would have been bleeding obvious the programme should have been cancelled very early on, when the degree of refubishment required on what was, in effect, a fleet of different aircraft!

Each airframe required a different sized wing center box to fit a fuselage of fractionally different measurements.

One further point, had the vexing release to service issues actually been addressed and the MR4 entered service, we would now be staring down the barrel of having to fund a forthcoming avionics update to counter obsolescence by 2030.

This alone would have cost Billions, on a tiny
bespoke fleet of just 9 aircraft.

It's a typical example of how the UK manages to waste huge amounts of defense money on UK prestigious programmes.

Next up, chucking billions more away on RAF Puma replacement, no doubt spending three times more than needed on an all singing and dancing Medium Transport Helicopter, rather than just ordering reliable tried and trusted Blackhawks off the shelf.