Savage No 4 Mk1 T

[Buccaneer]

Did Savage ever produce the N04T in the US or were they produced in the UK using Savage rifles???

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[Alan de Enfield]

Did Savage ever produce the N04T in the US or were they produced in the UK using Savage rifles???

From Peter Laidlers book on the subject, the Savage rifles were shipped to England for H&H conversion - however the rifles did not meet the specifications and extra work had to be done (including changing the barrels to 'in-spec ones') This meant that the time spent was not 'worth it' so, as BSA had increased productoon and were supplying sufficient numbers of 'in spec' rifles the Savage ones were put into stock (just in case BSA got bombed) which is why there are so many 'Savage No4T unfinished and without scopes' floating about. (Some of which have been civilian fitted with scopes and sold as pukka 4Ts)

[Surpmil]

From Peter Laidlers book on the subject, the Savage rifles were shipped to England for H&H conversion - however the rifles did not meet the specifications and extra work had to be done (including changing the barrels to 'in-spec ones') This meant that the time spent was not 'worth it' so, as BSA had increased productoon and were supplying sufficient numbers of 'in spec' rifles the Savage ones were put into stock (just in case BSA got bombed) which is why there are so many 'Savage No4T unfinished and without scopes' floating about. (Some of which have been civilian fitted with scopes and sold as pukka 4Ts)

I don't believe there is any evidence or even published suggestion that barrels were changed on the Savage rifles, or any others that arrived at H&H for conversion. To do so would quite possibly upset the accuracy found during the test-firing which determined the rifle's TR status and with an ongoing flow of TR grade rifles coming off production lines, why bother?

We know from the inventory of sniper rifles on issue to all forces in the UK taken in late 1943 that comparatively few No.4(T)s beyond the 1403 converted at Enfield had been issued by that date. Possibly they were simply piling up in stores somewhere, but since the Canadian Army for example was still not fully equipped with any kind of scoped rifles earlier in 1943, it seems much more likely that production was proceeding much slower than previously believed.

From Peter's discussions in the 1980s with a surviving H&H employee, we are given to understand that pads and then brackets were fitted, scopes zeroed, rifles test-fired and then the whole kit sent to stores somewhere. Personally I can't see any reason for rifles fitted with pads to accumulate and then remain uncompleted further except: 1. uncompleted rifles from RSAF(E) which were somehow never sent on to H&H for completion. 2. rifles partially completed at H&H and then set aside when the supply of brackets or the whole conversion program was temporarily interrupted. 3. rifles partially completed at H&H and then withdrawn before completion due to their "US PROPERTY" markings. That explanation is purely hypothetical and would not explain why non-Savage uncompleted rifles are also seen.

I've suggested what I think is the most likely scenario: an interruption in the supply of brackets causing the program to be suspended, possibly after some delay during which the fitting of pads may have continued in the expectation that bracket supplies would resume promptly. If they did not so resume, a backlog of rifles with pads fitted would be likely to accumulate and might then have been put into store pending resumption of the conversion program. If they were in store at some ordnance depot rather than the H&H factory, when the supply of brackets resumed, and the supply of TR rifles for conversion logically also resumed, it is quite possible I suggest that the backlog rifles were simply "forgotten" accidentally or deliberately. H&H was IMHO not converting more than five rifles a day; a few hundred rifles with pads fitted to suit the brackets made by a foundry now out of production might well have been unwanted, if only due to the possibility that brackets from a new and different supplier might not collimate accurately due to some variation in manufacture. It's even possible that tests found that to in fact be the case.

I rest my case.