Savage No 4 Mk1 T

[Roger Payne]

Paul, can you see if the area on the receiver side wall that the front pad sits on has been kissed with a mill, in the usual fashion? The edge of the milling should be just barely visible following the contours of the body pad.

TBH there are one or two things that disquiet me a little. The pad screws have been hand filed to length. The edges of the pad are perfect, whereas the contours of the receiver show numerous minor dings & scratches consistent with normal use over a long life. H&H finished off the pad screws by bringing in a vertical milling cutter & just shaving off a few thou along the inner face of the receiver side wall (trimming the screw ends in the process). The milling marks are generally there to see on genuine T's. As a result of this minor milling there is also usually a tiny curve at the very front top edge of most real front body pads where they have been 'kissed' by the cutter at its forward-most point of travel. Maybe I'm missing it, but I can't see it here.

[Roger Payne]

This is the point that I was trying to explain. Note the slight curve at the front edge of the two front body pads (left & centre). In fairness, it is difficult to see in the photo of the example at left, but it is much easier to see with it in one's hands. The middle example is more noticeable in the picture. The right hand example is a modern reproduction pad.

[Buccaneer]

Hi Roger, I have checked and although there is a witness mark on the inside of the bolt way it has not touched the pad so it looks as though it has repro pads. Paul

[Surpmil]

We know the bracket is a modern reproduction so someone has renumbered it recently.

The scope is the most pitted I've ever seen and under what conceivable scenario would a rusty old dog like that be rebuilt and refinished in service? As 1403 was fitted to a trials No.4 1496 probably was as well, originally.

I'd guess it might possibly be an originally converted rifle that was found stripped of pads and rebuilt by someone, but any solder under those pads? No sign of a machined flat under the front one?

It's possible the right scope turned up after long separation and was rebuilt and reunited, but seems more likely the numbers on the butt were more recent additions.

The staking is of course non-standard though I like the look of it. Problem is he's just effectively made the screw slots about 50% shorter and that won't end well next time someone needs to turn them!

The paint has that Indian, brushed-on look, but I must say that of the replicas we have seen this one has had the most effort devoted to simulating a correct finish.

[Alan de Enfield]

Is that 'staking' of the screws 'normal' ?



I was under the impression that it is the surrounding metal that is punched so it deforms into the screw slot.

It is certainly that way on both my 4T & L42

[Roger Payne]

Alan, I'm no engineer, so I stand correcting on this one, but I think either are acceptable in principle - you either punch the screw into the surrounding pad metal, or vice versa. However, as you suggest, the staking of the pads is the norm in UK service.

[Buccaneer]

Did Savage ever produce the N04T in the US or were they produced in the UK using Savage rifles???

[Alan de Enfield]

Did Savage ever produce the N04T in the US or were they produced in the UK using Savage rifles???

From Peter Laidlers book on the subject, the Savage rifles were shipped to England for H&H conversion - however the rifles did not meet the specifications and extra work had to be done (including changing the barrels to 'in-spec ones') This meant that the time spent was not 'worth it' so, as BSA had increased productoon and were supplying sufficient numbers of 'in spec' rifles the Savage ones were put into stock (just in case BSA got bombed) which is why there are so many 'Savage No4T unfinished and without scopes' floating about. (Some of which have been civilian fitted with scopes and sold as pukka 4Ts)

[Surpmil]

Is that 'staking' of the screws 'normal' ?



I was under the impression that it is the surrounding metal that is punched so it deforms into the screw slot.

It is certainly that way on both my 4T & L42

IIRC Peter told us in the past that as some pads, having repeatedly come loose and been repeatedly re-staked, became impossible to stake from the pad into the screw slot, the screw head was instead staked into one of the divots formed in the edge of the pad previously.

[CINDERS]

IIRC Peter told us in the past that as some pads, having repeatedly come loose and been repeatedly re-staked, became impossible to stake from the pad into the screw slot, the screw head was instead staked into one of the divots formed in the edge of the pad previously.

My BSA 1944 T is listed on page 48 of Peter & Ian's book (A K & S 16684) being involved in dowelled bush & screw trials this is evident on the number of stakings on the front pad.
Scope & rifle are still together, I have no plans moving it on.