Australian P14 Snipers, or Rifle No 3 Mk I* (T)

[lmg15]

Found this thread while looking for something else, but maybe worth providing some clarity on some of the theories presented so far. Reading between the lines in a recent Gunboards post, this post may have been the basis for some of the comments therein.

The gist is that Remington No,3 rifles appear to have had some work done on them at Lithgow to convert them to No.3(T). The jury is still out on that, but only one plausible example has been found purportedly at the Lithgow SAF collection back room.

What can be said with certainty is that Australia received one third of the total P14(T) production (668 of 2001) in the early 1920s. These appear in the official Small Arms Returns between the wars. That may be surprising to many that such a large number and proportion of total production ended up in Australia. But alas, this is in black and white. Such rifles were marked with the small /I\ inside a D mark on the left side of the receiver ring, and on the right side of the butt.

It would appear that at least 247 of the Australian issued No.3(T)s were issued to the 2nd Military District, and were marked D/I\D over 2 over the rack number. The rack number was positioned such that it formed a prefix to the existing serial number on the RH sight protector. Rack number and serial number are separated by a "."

eg,

D/I\D
2
247.191511

It is likely that the bulk of the rifles were issued to NSW (2nd MD) and Victoria (3rd MD) which were the most populous states.

The theory that the D/I\D over 2 marks were put on Lithgow converted No.3(T)s is not borne out by any evidence. In fact, it is clear that the serial number font is identical to the standard PPC set up rifles, and the rack number is in a different font applied later by the 2nd MD.

The only evidence I have seen to link Australian production to No.3(T)s is a spare Pattern 1918 scope made by AOC in 1944. Identical to the scopes fitted to the No.1Mk.3H(T), the only difference is that the rear mount is set further back against the ocular cone to fit the No.3 rifle. It appeared that the rear mount was placed there in the first instance rather than being moved aft at a later stage that would leave traces of solder and disrupted blueing. On the face of it, it would appear that defective or lost PPC scopes may have been replaced by AOC scopes, but fitted to original PPC set up No.3(T) rifles.

I have also seen an original No.3(T) rifle fitted with a US M84 scope in original Patt 1918 scope mounts. While one could theorise that it was a field replacement of a broken 1918 scope, I think it was done well post WW2.

Without some additional info, the best light I can put on Australian converted Remington No.3 snipers is some experimental tinkering at the SAF.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Terry Hawker]

D/I\D
2
247.191511

A bit of a correction is in order, at least as far as the example cited is concerned. It is not marked, "D /l\ D over 2" as mentioned, but the reverse - " 2 over D /l\ D".

Also, lest there be any confusion, No. 247 is a Winchester product.

The only reason I am certain these points are facts, rather than speculation, is because this rifle has been sitting in my safe for the last 19 years.

Cheers,

Terry