First "ASK" of the new year...

[82Trooper]

First...happy New Year everyone.
I do not contribute much...but I sure do take a lot away from this group. Thank you all for your willingness to share your knowledge. I appreciate it.

New for me for 2025 is a Underwood M1 carbine. I obtained it from the estate of one of my coworker's father who recently passed away. I am happy to be the next caretaker....I took it apart and cleaned it yesterday. I have included a lot of photographs, hoping the group can help me decode/understand exactly what I have.

1. any general observations/specifications?
2. what is the "M" on the magazine release?
3."IO" on the upper hand guard?
4. circled "PI" on the operating slide?
5. "W" on the hammer (Winchester?)
6."ST" on the trigger housing?
7. Multiple letters on the bottom of the trigger housing?
8. circled "RA" on the pistol grip of the butt stock?
(the "14" would be an arms room/inventory number...I believe)
9. The "JL B (R?) on the sling cut out also on the buttstock?

Thanks in advance for any information.

[jimb16]

Wow! Where to start?? The W on the hammer is not Winchester. It is White Sewing Machine Co. The difference is the shape of the W. Winchester's is the same height as width. The "tall" W is White. Stock wood marked IO is made by Overton for Inland. The markings of the barrel flat are inspector's marks often referred to as Inland Hieroglyphics. The circled RA on the pistol grip may be a Raritan Arsenal proof/inspection mark. JL-B is a makers mark for Jamestown lounge for IBM. ST on the trigger housing id a mark for Standard Products. The underlined M on the mag catch means that it is a later modified type. The PI in the slide well is the marking for Packard for Inland. Judging from the size and location of the ordnance Wheel (crossed cannons) that is the ordnance inspection stamp for IBM which is consistent with the JL-B stamp in the sling well. The safety is a very late/post WWII type that replaced the original push button type. So is the barrel band with bayonet lug. What you have is a nice condition arsenal rebuilt carbine. I'll leave it up to others to discuss the parts variations in your carbine. BTW, toy also have a late pattern bolt which should have a makers mark on one or the other lug. There are also markings on the front of the mag catch and on other internal parts of the trigger mechanism and the bolt. There should also be markings on the front sight, rear sight, recoil plate, and a picture of the butt plate could reveal its manufacturer too. I should also mention the round bolt that you have is probably a post WWII replacement made by Underwood. The giveaway id the drain hole in the bottom of the bolt. So much to learn and so little time.....

[painter777]

1: Next time give us your Serial Number even if you X out the last digit or two. Gives us a idea of what it should have and if you might have a Sub Contract made Receiver.
2: The Underlined M means this is the last example, being capable of supporting the 30rd magazine, look on a front tooth for a letter marking.
3: IO, This is the last style IO marking on a Type III 4 Rivet Shallow depth Narrow groove hand guard made by S E Overton for Inland.
4: PI Op Slide, Can't see the Arm joint, but believe I can see a partly round rear box, making it fairly early. PI is Packard for Inland.
5: W on your Straight hammer is from Winchester. Note: WRA W is 0.085" tall. White Sewing Hammer is 0.125" tall.
6: ST is a Type IV Fabricated housing made by Talon for Standard Products.
7: RA is Raritan Arsenal. A Carbine in that stock went thru RA, possibly yours, as yours has been rebuilt with late / post WWII upgrades.
8: 14 - Likely as your thinking. Rack number.... etc.
9: JL-B Stock is a Type III Low Wood (Unless cut down from a Type II Hi-wood) made by Jamestown Lounge for a IBM carbine. The Cartouche /Crossed Cannons stamps is a IBM Stamp....... a real one. You'll find just the butt plate screw hole under the plate.

Sling: Is a reproduction.
Round Bolt: Is Post WWII with the gas escape hole on the bottom. **Look for a .U. stamped under the left lug.

Barrel Flat Markings: Have what we call the Hieroglyphics we find on Inland barrels. Look closely near the front sight for Inland markings, distance from muzzle to the P proof and size of the P Proof, also look for a month/year date.
Gas Cylinder: Is Swaged on like on Inland barrels, Underwood barrels the Cylinder was Milled. See this link and you can see the 2 types of Gas Cylinders. Scroll farther down the link and see how the Inland barrels are marked near the front sight and further yet to see the hieroglyphics found on Inland/Brown-Lipe-Chapin barrels. While there, Compare the look and size of P Proof stamps.

Link: The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Barrel Manufacturers

Best I can do right now

[82Trooper]

Thank you both for taking the time to address my numerous questions.

Two follow up data bits:

The serial # is 2816197
The barrel is marked:

• “INLAND MFG DIV”
“GENERAL MOTORS”
• “1 – 44”

[painter777]

Underwood built receiver.
Would expect a Underwood barrel dated ~ 12-43. I'm not aware of UEF using Inland barrels. So either a swapped barrel or a barrel transfer I'm not aware of.

Jim, Heard of any Inland barrels to Underwood late 43 ??

[82Trooper]

Ok...here are a few more photos to assist in identification...

The barrel bad is marked 'IS" (or "SI"?).



Butt plate :



Neither the front or rear sights have obviously visible markings...











Thanks again.
Mike

[USGI]

Here's a pic of a Winchester marked hammer for comparison to yours. - Bob

[painter777]

SI Bayonet band was made for Inland.
Buttplate..... Your not getting off that easy I'll give you a Link and YOU can match up the pattern: The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbine Buttplates
I'll get back to your Front sight below.
Rear Adj Sight looks to have numbers on the Right Side, Do they match your Serial # ? Look closely for a tiny H inside a Shield.
Sometimes when the Flip Sight was swapped out for a Rear Adj Sight it hindered seeing the Serial number and they placed the serial Number where you now see it forward of your Rear Sight.
Your Recoil Plate will have a letter code on it below the wood line. The Screw with the x or + mark is known to be a winchester thing.

Front Sight has what most call the Thumbnail print and associate with Winchester, but this can be found to some degree on other makers Sights also.

Compare the rear slope of the outer ear of Your Sight to the picture I added of L-R:
a WRA - N- RMC, The WRA sights have a arced slope, the other 2 a straighter slope with no arc.

[82Trooper]

1. Butt plate: National Postal Meter pattern seems to match?

2. Front sight: appears to match the middle example in your photo- N (National Postal, as well?

3. Rear sight: it is marked on the right side (man, you have good eyes). With my bifocals cleaned and a brighter light...I can read JAO over 6 or 7 digits, but they are too faint to make out. Appears too many zeros to match my serial number.

How did I do?

[jimb16]

The front sight is not National Postal Meter. It looks Winchester to me. There are some other peculiarities to Winchester front sights the others don't have and those deal with milling and location of other features. Its better at this stage not to go into detail, because that is what it is about, tiny details. An N marked front sight is made by Niedner Corp. who made them by the millions! One of the things that baffles new collectors is the miriad of parts markings. For instance, a W could mean any of several different companies depending on what part it is on. IP vs PI Same letters but different order=two different makers. It takes time and practice to sort out what each marking means. JAO= J. A. Otterbien Co. The rest is a part number. Its enough to make even the most experienced of us dizzy! And wait until you start to encounter transferred parts with lined out markings and overstamps! YIKES! And on the subject of butt plates, diamonds dots or squares? how many per inch? Smeared dots around the center? Missing dot at 3 o'clock"? How many dots on the top row? how many on the bottom row? How many holes in the wood under the but plate? Just when you think you have it all figured out....Wham! something new shows up. But then that is what keeps it interesting!