Sporterized 1891 Argentine what do I have?

[Kyle M.]

Hello all. Today I was at my local gun store and picked up this sporterized 1891 Argentine Mauser. It was $165 with a 20rd box of PPU ammo and has an excellent bore so I couldn't pass it up. Unfortunately, bubba got a hold of this one. On top of being sporterized it was drilled and tapped for a scout style scope mount. The numbers all match and the crest is actually somewhat visible. It's been buffed but not as much as most of the examples I've seen. The serial number is A51xx so if it was a rifle that puts it in 1893 and if a carbine 1895 according to what I've found. But I'm trying to figure out what it started life as rifle or carbine? The bolt bend looks like it could be original, but the rear sight goes to 2000 I though the carbines only went to 1900, but I've been wrong before. The front sight is a band around the muzzle which leads me to believe the barrel was shortened but I'm not sure. I've still got my dies and brass and a couple of molds that should work I also have .311, .312, and .313 sizing dies. Thanks in advance for any help identifying whether it was a rifle or carbine.

[MAC702]

I have one of each. Your bolt handle has been bent, and probably started life like the rifle, which was completely straight out away from the rifle and perpendicular to the bore axis. A carbine bolt handle immediately bends straight down along the stock with no angle toward the butt.

Also, the carbine sights are much shorter, and only go to 14. The rifle sight goes to 20.

Another clue (likely not needed at this point) is to identify where the rear sling loop used to be, assuming the stock is a cut-down original.

I tried to edit my post from my phone to put in some pictures, but it appears to be way too complicated to do that.

[Kyle M.]

I have one of each. Your bolt handle has been bent, and probably started life like the rifle, which was completely straight out away from the rifle and perpendicular to the bore axis. A carbine bolt handle immediately bends straight down along the stock with no angle toward the butt.

Also, the carbine sights are much shorter, and only go to 14. The rifle sight goes to 20.

Another clue (likely not needed at this point) is to identify where the rear sling loop used to be, assuming the stock is a cut-down original.

I tried to edit my post from my phone to put in some pictures, but it appears to be way too complicated to do that.

Hey thanks for the reply. When I got it out of the stock and saw the plugged cleaning rod channel I knew right away it started life as a rifle. I used to have an unaltered 1891 but I sold it to a guy who claimed no one had ever seen an 1891 Argentine rifle that still had it's crest intact, and he offered me way more than I paid, and way more than it was probably worth.

Also it appears I can no longer edit my original post, but I was wrong on the production date. I misread the list. A-C prefix rifles were made in 1892. So if the list I have found on two different sites is accurate it is a first year gun.

[RossMkIIEnjoyer]

Can't go wrong with that for $165. Still has the early trigger guard & magazine without the lock. Great hunting rifle or shooter. Love the 1891s. Still have a sporter I bought that already had a Williams micrometer sight, had a .257 Roberts barrel fitted in a duplicate profile of the original barrel (only 26", though). Not collectible but a great shooter. Yours being an early rifle, does it have the original vertical extractor or the later placement just above the right locking lug? Also, is the bolt shroud the early straight type or the later?

[Sapper740]

I've always thought the M1891 Argentine Mauser to be one of the most elegant of all Mausers. A lot of the rifles are in very good condition albeit with scrubbed national crests since Argentina wanted to hedge its bet on who was going to win the Chaco Wars. Here's a picture of the rifle and carbine together for comparison.

[Kyle M.]

I've always thought the M1891 Argentine Mauser to be one of the most elegant of all Mausers. A lot of the rifles are in very good condition albeit with scrubbed national crests since Argentina wanted to hedge its bet on who was going to win the Chaco Wars. Here's a picture of the rifle and carbine together for comparison.

Yes they are one of the better looking Mausers. I also really like my 1903 Ottoman/Turkish Mauser. Just wish it was still in 7.65. The notch they ground in the front receiver ring so that 8mm would fit in the magazine just looks goofy. I knew that the carbine's had the ears that protect the front sight and no cleaning rod. But until I found that plug in the cleaning rod channel I wasn't 100% sure.

[Kyle M.]

Can't go wrong with that for $165. Still has the early trigger guard & magazine without the lock. Great hunting rifle or shooter. Love the 1891s. Still have a sporter I bought that already had a Williams micrometer sight, had a .257 Roberts barrel fitted in a duplicate profile of the original barrel (only 26", though). Not collectible but a great shooter. Yours being an early rifle, does it have the original vertical extractor or the later placement just above the right locking lug? Also, is the bolt shroud the early straight type or the later?

Original extractor type, early shroud with no wings. I had to look up some pictures to help with the extractor location. That's when I found out about the pin in the receiver. Looking from the rear my extractor support pin is at the 3 o' clock position. I can't tell if it's a round or winged pin but it doesn't appear to have affected the serial number prefix.

[RossMkIIEnjoyer]

In the book Argentine Mauser Rifles 1871-1959, it says that serial prefix A0000-C4999 were produced 1892, wings were added to the bolt sleeves and magazine locks in 1893. The pin was added later (looks like 1899 or so) to keep from breaking extractors by closing the bolt of a round not fed from the magazine. The bolts had to be modified by relieving the front of the right locking lug for pin clearance.

It is pretty surprising how many of these rifles retained their original parts in service before being surplussed compared to so many other nation's rifles. Especially considering the number of attempted revolutions Argentina has seen.

[Kyle M.]

In the book Argentine Mauser Rifles 1871-1959, it says that serial prefix A0000-C4999 were produced 1892, wings were added to the bolt sleeves and magazine locks in 1893. The pin was added later (looks like 1899 or so) to keep from breaking extractors by closing the bolt of a round not fed from the magazine. The bolts had to be modified by relieving the front of the right locking lug for pin clearance.

It is pretty surprising how many of these rifles retained their original parts in service before being surplussed compared to so many other nation's rifles. Especially considering the number of attempted revolutions Argentina has seen.

Yes it is. Both of my rifles and mostif not all of them I've seen have been all matching. I don't know how true it is but I've read that the reason a lot of the Chilean and Brazilian rifles have mismatched bolts is because the bolts were stored in buckets under lock and key. Whereas the rifles were in open racks in an armory. That way if anyone got any ideas they'd have rifles but no bolts. My 1895 Chilean short rifle and my 1908 Brazilian Mauser are both in great condition but have mismatched bolts. It seems rare to find Brazilian Mausers in good shape. I don't know if they really abused them or if maybe the nice ones were imported years ago and the ones from 15-20 or so years ago like mine were just really rough.

[Sapper740]

It is pretty surprising how many of these rifles retained their original parts in service before being surplussed compared to so many other nation's rifles. Especially considering the number of attempted revolutions Argentina has seen.

Too true. My M1891 Argentine was all matching down to the clearing/cleaning rod. I even checked the brass muzzle cover for a serial number!