The Truth About 308 Win and 762 NATO

[Edward Horton]

To all

I’m not hot under the collar but I do not understand the reaction to posting the most accurate information on the subject of the .308 and 7.62 I can find. I have spent years looking for Enfield manuals and information to share with others and the moderators reaction here puzzles me. (Posting cartridge pressure levels should not be this painful)

We have collectors and shooters in our forums and my main interest has always been the care and feeding of the Enfield Rifle. If you gain anything from this posting you should note that factory ammunition (.303 and .308) is downloaded to lower pressure levels than it is actually rated for. This is one of the reasons why .303 SAAMI American factory cases do not last long when reloaded and fired in the Enfield rifle compared to Greek HXP cases. (Our American .303 cases are designed for lower chamber pressures to avoid lawsuits)


Below is an example of this from the Speer reloading manual on the 8mm, American .303 British ammunition is loaded to pressures below 43,000 CUP.

“Part of the interest in handloading the 8mm Mauser can be traced to the low power of U.S. factory ammunition. Because of industry concerns over shooters using S-type ammunition in the weaker (and tight-bored) Model 1888 action, the industry pressure limit is set very low-37,000 CUP. As a result, the performance of American 8mm Mauser factory ammo is rather disappointing-not much better than a 30-30. European ammunition is loaded to higher limits allowing the true nature of the cartridge to be experienced. Speer pressure-tested some surplus 8x57mm Turkish military ammunition and it was loaded to 50,000 CUP. Handloaded to higher pressures, the 8mm Mauser is close to the 308 Winchester in power and is suitable for most North Ameri- can game except the great bears.”

No4Mk1(T)

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Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Amatikulu]

Are people chastised and banned for posting really bad jokes ?

Click and read below

For a good laugh - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

Two things to remember:

1. The triangle with the exclamation mark at the top right is where you should report a post that you feel is inapropriate or breaks the rules.

2. There are two forums hosted on the same server that relate to Lee Enfields.
They are managed by different groups of moderators following similar guidelines but there are differences. For the CSP site refer to this post:

Military Surplus Collectors Forums - Announcements in Forum : SMLE (Lee Enfield)

[Edward Horton]

Amatikulu

Why is a moderator from a different forum crossing over and addressing a comment I made to No4Mk1(T)? You made no such comments to this same posting at the Jouster CSP Forum where you are a moderator, are these two forums any different when it comes to subject matter?

My tung and cheek humor here is very simple, if a moderator doesn’t make any comments about jokes made by John Sukey in a Enfield collectors forum why are comments being made here by a moderator on the chamber pressures for the .308 and 7.62 in my thread?

Please take your time answering these questions and remember I have never criticized the Enfield Rifle in any fashion and all I’m doing here is furnishing information on the Enfield rifle that I view in the same category as the Enfield books and manuals I have furnished to this forum in the past.

Or is the information I provide to these forums now considered worthless to collectors and shooters alike?

Below, modern headspace settings for the Enfield rifle for ammunition that is only be shot once and not reloaded.

[Amatikulu]

Edward Horton, please see my answers below

Amatikulu

Why is a moderator from a different forum crossing over and addressing a comment I made to No4Mk1(T)?

The answer is to be helpful. The question you raised relates to a post on the forum that I am a moderator on. The responsibility for that post lies with the CSP moderator group.


You made no such comments to this same posting at the Jouster CSP Forum where you are a moderator, are these two forums any different when it comes to subject matter? Yes, there are differences in the rules and the discretion of the different site management. There was no need for CSP moderators to make the comment on CSP as you didn't post the same message regarding John Sukey's post there.

My tung and cheek humor here is very simple, if a moderator doesn’t make any comments about jokes made by John Sukey in a Enfield collectors forum why are comments being made here by a moderator on the chamber pressures for the .308 and 7.62 in my thread? As explained already, the two forums are managed by different groups and there is no connection between the post of John Sukey on CSP and the comments made here by this forum's moderator - hence my post.

Please take your time answering these questions and remember I have never criticized the Enfield Rifle in any fashion and all I’m doing here is furnishing information on the Enfield rifle that I view in the same category as the Enfield books and manuals I have furnished to this forum in the past.
No need to take any time preparing a response, it's straight forward. I don't know what the relevance is in your sentence to you never criticising the Lee Enfield rifle, so can't comment on that.

Or is the information I provide to these forums now considered worthless to collectors and shooters alike? That's for each individual member to decide on the value of the information.

Below, modern headspace settings for the Enfield rifle for ammunition that is only be shot once and not reloaded.

Please make sure you read the new rules on CSP so that there are no misunderstandings over how posts will be managed.

[Edward Horton]

Amatikulu and No4Mk1(T)

1. My apologies, I had both forums open at the same time and confused which forum Mr. Sukey had posted at and got it reversed. (sorry)

2. I served my time in purgatory for 30 days, do not prejudge my new posting here and the information provided.
(no riots have broken out “yet” and I plan to ignore my distracters comments)

"I don't know what the relevance is in your sentence to you never criticising the Lee Enfield Rifle"
3. I have never argued with or insulted Mr. Laidler, criticized cordite or think in terms of inherent weakness in the same breath as the Enfield rifle.

Think of me as being a totally different and reformed person now
(or as close as possible and still not get struck lighting)

[ireload2]

Do you have anything from an original authority that substantiates the statement highlighted in red?

What is your rationale for quoting Speer about the 8X57 & the 1888 Commission rifle? I can provide readily available information that contradicts part of the Speer quote about the bore sizes and the so called weakness of the 1888 German rifle.
The 8X57 information has nothing to do with the .303 British or Lee-Enfields and it is not entirely accurate.

To all

I’m not hot under the collar but I do not understand the reaction to posting the most accurate information on the subject of the .308 and 7.62 I can find. I have spent years looking for Enfield manuals and information to share with others and the moderators reaction here puzzles me. (Posting cartridge pressure levels should not be this painful)

We have collectors and shooters in our forums and my main interest has always been the care and feeding of the Enfield Rifle. If you gain anything from this posting you should note that factory ammunition (.303 and .308) is downloaded to lower pressure levels than it is actually rated for. This is one of the reasons why .303 SAAMI American factory cases do not last long when reloaded and fired in the Enfield rifle compared to Greek HXP cases. (Our American .303 cases are designed for lower chamber pressures to avoid lawsuits)


Below is an example of this from the Speer reloading manual on the 8mm, American .303 British ammunition is loaded to pressures below 43,000 CUP.

“Part of the interest in handloading the 8mm Mauser can be traced to the low power of U.S. factory ammunition. Because of industry concerns over shooters using S-type ammunition in the weaker (and tight-bored) Model 1888 action, the industry pressure limit is set very low-37,000 CUP. As a result, the performance of American 8mm Mauser factory ammo is rather disappointing-not much better than a 30-30. European ammunition is loaded to higher limits allowing the true nature of the cartridge to be experienced. Speer pressure-tested some surplus 8x57mm Turkish military ammunition and it was loaded to 50,000 CUP. Handloaded to higher pressures, the 8mm Mauser is close to the 308 Winchester in power and is suitable for most North Ameri- can game except the great bears.”

No4Mk1(T)

Are people chastised and banned for posting really bad jokes ?

Click and read below

For a good laugh - Military Surplus Collectors Forums