criterion garand barrel

[AKA Hugh Uno]

Hugh, do you have one of these barrels or are you just guessing?
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Your INITIAL question (i.e. "what can I expect from XX commercial barrel") rests upon a rather weak premise. You seem to expect a certain degree of inherent accuracy, and/or superior accuracy from the barrel alone. BULLET is FAR FAR more important than barrel.

As far as accuracy goes, even from a Krieger USGI/JCG legal rifle, truly superior as this may be, I would never "expect" more than a QUARTER MOA advantage/improvement over a crisp tight new USGI SA barrel. If these barrels actually offered significant inherent accuracy (say more than 1/2 MOA), everyone would use them at Camp Perry and the winners circle would have NOTHING else. Thankfully, that is NOT the case.

HEAVY match barrels from Douglas or Krieger may have a bit more inherent advantage because they are STIFFER, but in a fully tuned match gun, the difference between say my Clint Fowler match M1 with a USGI barrel and the exact saME rifle with a heavy match barrel would probably NOT exceed 1/4 MOA! The real; advantage with the heavy barel is that as the match progresses, the heavy barrel would heat up less and be a bit more consistent, plus wobble less (heavier), and likely stay accurate a few thousand rounds longer.

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Oh, and I have owned several custom/commercial barreled match M1s and M1As over the years and still do.

[JBS]

Hugh, do you have one of these barrels or are you just guessing?
****************
Your INITIAL question (i.e. "what can I expect from XX commercial barrel") rests upon a rather weak premise. You seem to expect a certain degree of inherent accuracy, and/or superior accuracy from the barrel alone. BULLET is FAR FAR more important than barrel.

As far as accuracy goes, even from a Krieger USGI/JCG legal rifle, truly superior as this may be, I would never "expect" more than a QUARTER MOA advantage/improvement over a crisp tight new USGI SA barrel. If these barrels actually offered significant inherent accuracy (say more than 1/2 MOA), everyone would use them at Camp Perry and the winners circle would have NOTHING else. Thankfully, that is NOT the case.

HEAVY match barrels from Douglas or Krieger may have a bit more inherent advantage because they are STIFFER, but in a fully tuned match gun, the difference between say my Clint Fowler match M1 with a USGI barrel and the exact saME rifle with a heavy match barrel would probably NOT exceed 1/4 MOA! The real; advantage with the heavy barel is that as the match progresses, the heavy barrel would heat up less and be a bit more consistent, plus wobble less (heavier), and likely stay accurate a few thousand rounds longer.

********
Oh, and I have owned several custom/commercial barreled match M1s and M1As over the years and still do.

You just can’t help yourself can you. You have to thump your chest and be first and last word and gods gift to all things with an “M”. Your contributions to this forum are about 95 percent negative or to use your words Poo-Poo. It look as though you came from the old Jouster forum, why don’t you take your megalomania and delusions of grandeur and go back there so that these good people can have a productive discussion about improving the performance of their Garands.

[colt100]

So you are guessing. That's what I thought. I agree with JBS. You have little to contribute and speak with authority about something you know little about. You have no idea what this barrel will do and yet you have this know it all attitude.

Yes, I expect a degree of accuracy. If some new barrels shot to 10 MOA and other 2 MOA, that is still an expectation of accuracy.

I know that there are many factors in accuracy in these rifles. My main questions was if it would be worth it to just re-stock and re-barrel or to have the rifle match preped. That's why I was asking about this barrel and REAL world experience. I wanted to know people's experiences with that barrel or if I would better off getting another barrel or taking a different direction.

I am not expecting that I'll have a 1 MOA shooter just by changing the stock and barrel. I was asking what these barrels are capable of. I don't go to perry and have no idea what barrels top competitors are using. I'm sure that they are not using the cheapest barrels out there and I would guess that the top people are using the best equipment (match barrels). If every barrel is the same accuracy wise, then why doesn't everyone use just the cheapest ones out there? I don't buy that one. The degree of accuracy has to be different between barrel makers otherwise why would anyone spend 200 dollars more on a "match" barrel?

Hugh, I remember you now from the old forums and you sure haven't changed. You used to like to argue with everyone there also. This post is almost nothing but your responses that contribute little (as you have no experience with this barrel) and off track comments about LC ammo and it's accuracy.

Besides, I believe that you are the only one who has posted that has "infractions" under your name. What does that mean?

Since this is my post, I will respectfully ask Hugh not to post on this thread anymore. Hugh, you can start you own threads and spread your wisdom on those threads.

Thanks to everyone else who has posted.

[JBS]

Colt, I understood from an earlier post that this rifle out of the six counting this one ? is your lets experiment rifle. If so then I would concur with you and suggest you use this one rifle for “work in progress”. Leave the others to “as issued” by CMP for now. You can do a modular approach and I have done this for customers that were on a budget. You do each step and then see the results of the change. You will note that the little changes get little improvement. Like the finial change of shimming and hand fitting the gas cylinder to the barrel may not make the groups smaller but may change it from oblong to round and as a result more rounds stay in the ring. I would say try a good bedding job first. If I recall the NRA M1 book has a section on how to bed a Garand check that out if you are a hands on guy. There are several other steps you can do before spending the money for a barrel. Do some of them and see what happens. Then upgrade the barrel. Doing it in steps also allows you to see and understand what each step helps with. This is of great help when you are trying to figure out why your Garand stopped shooting well ,,,,, and this will happen, they are hard to keep in tune.

[Bob Womack]

Folks, we are all here at the bar to have a good time. Be nice to those around you or the bouncers will magically appear and peace will reign after all. Enjoy your beers and have a nice night.

Bob

[AKA Hugh Uno]

thanks Bob, and I was about to mention that people can judge for themselves the value (or veracity) of my input/intormation. Sometimes people don't like any information that isn't exactly what they wanted to hear.

I have owned, shot, and reloaded far more than my fair share of M1s and M1As and am ahappy to share my opinions and/or experience. The fact is, I have been THANKED 68 times in 42 posts (vs. 2 and 6 for my apparent antogonists here). Thus, I stand by my information and am confident that most who read (or know me personally) don't need my bona-fides to trust my opinions or word.

As for my "infraction" (which you can see yourself if you click on my name), I freely admit and confess that I accidently had one extra WANT AD listing a couple or three months ago (over the limit of three I think) because I failed to go back SIX WEEKS in the Want Ads from THAT time and find an old ad I had never deleted (in other words, like 9 pages BACK in the listings). I thought it was pretty chicken-#hit thing to do, but what the heck, I guess I should have known the rules in greater detail,

As for Krieger barrels, you can call John Krieger or Steve Dahlke at krieger/Criterion 262-628-8558 and ASK THEM YOURSELF about this question. I am pretty sure they will tell you essentially the same thing you have already read here.

As for being warned off from "your postings" that's a pretty bold move for someone who doesn't own the site, so I guess I will continue to post within my discretion. good luck with whatever.

[Badger]

As for being warned off from "your postings" that's a pretty bold move for someone who doesn't own the site, so I guess I will continue to post within my discretion. good luck with whatever.

Hugh ...

First of all, thank you for your Contributing Member support. Both my wife and I appreciate it very much, as few people put their money where their mouth is when it comes to paying the freight to keep the site alive. We are about to double the size of our host server in terms of disk space and processor performance, so our costs will double proportionately, but the members will see a nice increase in performance and the amount of research material we can present live on-line within the Knowledge Libraries as a result. Without the support of folks like yourself, that wouldn't be possible.

Second, even though they don't own the site, Bob and the other moderating staff are pure volunteers, who work with our full empowerment to maintain a "fair, firm and friendly" environment for all of the membership. One that's as free from personal attacks, political bun fights, or any other type of negative postings that usually turn into literary death spirals, and have the potential to turn an otherwise pleasant experience into something distasteful, where people are discouraged from posting for fear of becoming targets.

So, anything everyone can do to help that cause, yet maintain a right to dissent and disagree, but through civil discourse, would be very much appreciated by the ownership.

Again, thanks for your support …

Regards,
Badger (Doug)

[Badger]

Just for clarity ...

My last post wasn't intended to center out AKA Hugh Uno personally. It was meant to address EVERYONE participating in these types of multi-opinion threads. To be honest, I haven't even read this entire thread as I don't collect these rifles.

I apologize to AKA Hugh Uno if it left appearances it was all about his posts. I was trying to respond to the general statement about our moderator's role on here, vis-a-vis the board ownership and perhaps that came out badly, although the message remains the same.

Sorry AKA Hugh Uno ... you get a free one on my head ...

Regards,
Badger (Doug)

[Kirk]

I was given an 100-round box of FN57 ammo. It looked clean, just a slight tarnish on the case; no corrosion or other signs of deterioration. Out of the first 4 rounds, I had 3 duds & 1 hangfire. I called it quits. I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder into freshly primed cases (Rem or WW + CCI primers) and seated the bullets. The bullets ran .307" so I did not expect much in the way of accuracy. Surprisingly, the ammo would easily do 3" @ 100yds out of a 1903.

[ltcboy]

You sure like to thump your chest don’t you. Not being informed to the highest degree of aptitude I shall hesitate to articulate for fear I may deviate from the true course of rectitude, and shall leave all things Garand to your Expertise and Mastery. By your leave.

JBS-

I am in no way "choosing" a side in this debate you have here with Hugh. I think that Hugh was not trying to come off as a braggart or know it all. I think that when we read a posting on a thread, you cannot hear the inflection that the author of that post meant it to be. After reading what Hugh had posted, some of it, even though it's HIS opinion, may be valid. I am not trying to cultivate the crap that used to happed on the old Jouster forum. This forum is nothing but class and I enjoy reading and learning from you guys. I just think we all sometimes need to read and reread the postings on these threads so that stuff like this doesn't occur.

I'm sure that if you met Hugh in person, you two could talk Garands all day long and eventually come to a happy medium.

MIke