More Bad Press For The Enfield

[jmoore]

I reckon having the best data available is rather better than guessing or making more assumptions than absolutely necessary. Plus, load paths aren't always at 90 degrees to the bore axis. I don't expect IMMEDIATE results here, but somebody's got to actually "get their hands dirty" and DO something!
Funding, of course, is always part of the situation, I understand we're not the "government" w/ "unlimited" resources.

But never mind me, I don't know nuttin'!

Information

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[ireload2]

>>>I reckon having the best data available is rather better than guessing or making more assumptions than absolutely necessary.<<<

You can't always wait until you have perfect information. It hurts nothing to write out the equation and plug in the numbers. If you don't like the answer double check your work.

[jmoore]

What I want to do is iniate a low cycle "fatigue" failure by rechambering a barreled action to either 300Win Mag or 300WSM. If that doesn't achieve the desired effect, then I think there's no point worrying about any 7.62x51 load.

Quick and fairly cheap. A remote firing test rig is no drama.

[Surpmil]

And what is "Rule 150" again?

[Mk VII]

Defines the specification for TR rifle.

[Strangely Brown]

The 2010 Bisley Bible is available online for the first time here:

National Rifle Association of the UK | NRA | News | All

TR – Target Rifle
150 Any bolt-action rifle which, in the opinion of the Shooting Committee, is
of conventional design and safe. All rifles must also conform to the following:
General: The rifle or all its component parts must be readily available in
quantity.
Weight: Maximum 6.5kg (14.32lbs) as used including all attachments except
the sling.
Barrel and Chamber: Suitable for firing any of:
a the standard 7.62 x 51mm NATO military cartridge
58 FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, EQUIPMENT and TARGETS
b the .308” Winchester commercial cartridge
c the .303” British Mk VII military cartridge
d the standard 5.56 x 45mm NATO military cartridge
e the .223” Remington commercial cartridge
Note: (a) and (b) are not necessarily the same, and (d) and (e) are not the same.
Attention is drawn to Appendix V.
Bore and Chamber Dimensions: The dimensions must not be less than either CIP or SAAMI minimum chamber drawings (whichever is the smaller) other than in (a) and (b) above where the following concessions are permitted:
the bore diameter must not be less than 0.298”.
the groove diameter must not be less than 0.3065”.
the throat diameter must not be less than either the bullet diameter or
0.3085”, whichever is the greater.
the minimum throat length may also be reduced but only to such an
extent that the bullet of the cartridge in use is not in contact with the
rifling. See Appendix V Para 7f.
If reduced bore or groove diameters as above are used, only ammunition
developing an average max pressure less than 3650 Bar under CIP test conditions may be used. NRA ammunition “as issued” will satisfy this limit.
Pull of trigger: Minimum 1.5kg (3.307lbs). Set triggers and ‘release’ triggers
are not allowed.
Stock and Butt: May be shaped so as to be comfortable to the firer. A thumb
hole for the trigger hand is permitted. Adjustable butt plates without hooks are
permitted. The depth of the butt plate curvature shall not exceed 20mm (0.79”)
at its deepest point. A hand stop is permitted.
Magazine: If fitted shall not be used except as a loading platform for single
rounds.
Muzzle brakes: Not allowed.
Sling: Must conform to Para 209.
Backsight: A variable dioptre eye piece or single correcting lens may be used
(but see Paras 206 and 207). One or more optically flat filters may also be used
in front of or in rear of the aperture. A flexible disc or eyecup may be used. In
addition a piece of fl at material or a blinder may be fitted to the backsight to
restrict the vision of the disengaged eye.
Foresight: Any type which may contain a single clear or coloured magnifying
lens which has a minimum focal length of 2 metres (0.5 dioptre) but see Paras
206 and 207. It may also contain optically flat clear or coloured element(s).
Spirit levels: It is permitted to attach spirit levels or other level indicators to the
rifle.

FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, EQUIPMENT and TARGETS 59
Overseas competitors. Where reciprocal agreement has been reached, overseas competitors may use, in competition, target rifles which conform to their home country’s Governing Body’s rules, during their first three months in the United Kingdom, provided that they conform to the maximum weight, chamber dimensions, minimum trigger pull and sight specifications given above. Out of competition only the minimum trigger weight condition must be complied with.
Telescopic sights are not permitted. The rifles must be suitable for use with any ammunition supplied by the NRA (see Appendix V).

[Dimitri]

Oil and water on your ammunition and in your chamber can increase the wear and head space on ANY rifle, BUT it does not cause the Enfield Rifle to explode.
(Just ask your veterans who fired them under wet combat conditions)

The L42 rifles were used for a number of years and I doubt anyone issued one had them explode. So I doubt there is any proof the magazine could give.

If you work at it, its possible to "grenade" any firearm action. Seems that I've heard of plenty more Mauser derivatives letting go over the years than Lee types.

Camp Perry over the years has had many Mauser actions go as competitors attempted to get 300 Win Mag velocities out of the 30-06. Per Gale McMilan.

If I may make a suggestion, the Canadian members here could try and contact Jim Bullock he was on the Canadian shooting team and also pressure tested thousands of rounds of ammunition.

I purchased my Envoy (E20) from him. Only thing he told me to worry about is that the rifle bore is slightly undersized and I should back the powder down by one grain. Otherwise he didn't tell me anything else like worrying about rain.

Dimitri

[Edward Horton]

Dimitri

I have a small collection of 12 Enfield Rifles and I'm Pro-Enfield and do NOT think the Enfield rifle has ANY inherent weaknesses.

On the other side of the coin I'm anti-oiling or greasing cartridge cases because it increases bolt thrust.

The Enfield rifle was proof tested with an oiled cartridge and then checked with a .067 head space gauge. If the bolt closed on this .067 head space gauge the rifle failed proof testing due to excessive bolt lug and bolt head set back. (a oiled proof cartridge exerts more bolt thrust than a dry proof cartridge)

The Australians when testing .303 Enfield's converted to 7.62 NATO used a .303 enfield as a "control" for the 7.62 testing. The control .303 Enfield fired six .303 proof test rounds and the headspace increased by .010.

Water,oil or grease in the chamber or on the ammunition increases bolt thrust and the wear and tear or serviceability of your Enfiel rifle. The issued Enfield rifles were inspected four times per year, three mini-visual inspections and one complete tear down inspection.

We know the Armourers replaced bolt heads and bolt bodies during these inspections and dry firing doesn't cause excess bolt thrust.

If shooting and bolt thrust causes increased head space, then oil or water on your ammunition or in your chamber and the added bolt thrust isn't going to make your Enfield last longer.

[Surpmil]

....The Enfield rifle was proof tested with an oiled cartridge and then checked with a .067 head space gauge. If the bolt closed on this .067 head space gauge the rifle failed proof testing due to excessive bolt lug and bolt head set back. (a oiled proof cartridge exerts more bolt thrust than a dry proof cartridge)

I have a little difficulty with this. Is it being claimed that every No4 rifle sent for proof had a bolt head fitted that just closed over the .064 gauge? I rather doubt it. Perhaps a feeler gauge was used with the existing bolt head and the .064 guage and if "set back" of more than .003" occured, THEN the rifle failed proof?

The Australians when testing .303 Enfield's converted to 7.62 NATO used a .303 enfield as a "control" for the 7.62 testing. The control .303 Enfield fired six .303 proof test rounds and the headspace increased by .010.

I'm afraid I'm a bit sceptical about tests like this as well. Official "tests" have a funny way of producing the result that the authorities want, or that 'interested parties' want. (I've cited a few examples elsewhere concerning Canadian-produced equipment) We've been told here by informed parties, that the Indian No1 Rifles in 7.62mm are built of the same steel that UK and Australian No1 Rifles were built of. Of course, we've also been told that 'better' steel was used, but the weight of authority lies with the former opinion if I remember the parties involved.

Water,oil or grease in the chamber or on the ammunition increases bolt thrust and the wear and tear or serviceability of your Enfiel rifle. The issued Enfield Rifles were inspected four times per year, three mini-visual inspections and one complete tear down inspection.

We know the Armourers replaced bolt heads and bolt bodies during these inspections and dry firing doesn't cause excess bolt thrust.

If shooting and bolt thrust causes increased head space, then oil or water on your ammunition or in your chamber and the added bolt thrust isn't going to make your Enfield last longer.

Perhaps it's not your intention to suggest that bolthead and bodies were replaced on a regular, or even annual basis, but that's how it reads to me. Just thought I'd mention that.