National Match 1903 rifles

[sakorick]

If you ask John, he has very detailed information on the pre WWI NM rifles .. probably he would share it with you?

Rick, that SA 1919 NM rifle would be very great to have! If you ever decide to part, I'd love to put it right next to the "unwanted" RIA 1919 NM. I think they would make a great couple! Of course I wouldn't mind to have the 1916 NM rifle too, just to make sure that I somewhen have every year.

And the other Rick, the Thread Starter, please also post pictures of your 1920 NM rifle!

Promo........I did, go here, Rick. https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=61210

Information

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[Rick the Librarian]

I also have another NM which I forgot to mention for purposes of this discussion - a 1924. It is serial number 1,266,164 and it is a bit of an anomaly. It is mentioned in SRS:

1266164NM 061426DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42

As you can see, it wasn't sold until mid-1926. It has a correct 10-24 SA barrel with Star Gauge stamp and SG registration number. It also collected a Type B stock and a J6 bolt. The stock has no discernible markings and the bolt is not etched with the serial number and has the modified cocking piece without the usual "mushroom" at the back. I admit I don't know if it "came" this way or was modified by the original owner. The characteristics are those of a National Match.

[oldcorps]

I have an original P. J. O'Hare brass NM muzzle cover for an '03 if anyone's interested, PM me.

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Thanks...

Regards,
Doug

[Rick the Librarian]

Promo, the 1916 NM is one of my "Only from my cold, head hands" collection. However, I admit the 1919 SA NM may be another story if the price is right ...

[Rick the Librarian]

For "the good of the order", here are some pictures of my 1919 SA NM:

[Tom Jackson]

My 1919 NM rifles.[IMG]

[Smokeeaterpilot]

[QUOTE=sakorick;405711A friend recently found a document in the National Archives that approved Officers to purchase National Match rifles in 1919. These rifles were to turned in each year and rebuilt at the Springfield Arsenal, tolerances checked and reassembled for the following year. The DCM sales started in 1921 by congress after pressure form the thousands of Doughboys who learned how to shoot in the Great War. The Military supported this effort. Most people then assumed the National Match rifle program started up in 1921. However, we know the program was alive and well in 1919 and 1920 and suspect that National Match rifles were also available prior to 1917.QUOTE]

I wanted to add something to this....

July 29, 1919 Captain A. Duncan (Assistant Ord. Officer) sent an inquiry to the Office of Chief of Ordnance stating the following...

"1. Par. 11, Bulletin 18, War Department, May 19, 1919, provides for the 'issue or sale on the grounds' of star gauged and targeted rifles to individuals participating in the matches.

2. Request information as to whether or not revolvers and pistols may be sold by the ordnance officer of the National Matches to individuals participating in the 1919 National Matches."

By order of the Chief of Ordnance a memo was sent back from Col. L.M. Fuller authorizing both sales of star gauged and targeted rifles, revolvers and pistols to individuals participating in the National Matches. It does not specifically specify this being limited to only officers only.

In this same folder of a string of documentation outlined how many civilians may participate on National Guard State teams. So it may be possible that civilians were eligible to participate in sales of rifles, pistols and revolvers if they were participants in the 1919 National Matches.

If someone has a copy of that specific War Department Bulletin, it may have the specific outlines where it specifies officers only. However this string of correspondence alludes that any participates in the National Matches may be sold rifles, pistols and revolvers by the Assistant Ordnance Officer at the National Matches.

[sakorick]

That's very interesting. So it would seem a few lucky civilians got the jump on congress at least two years ahead of everyone else. I wonder if anyone has compiled a list of National Match serial numbers by year? John Beard perhaps?

[Smokeeaterpilot]

That's very interesting. So it would seem a few lucky civilians got the jump on congress at least two years ahead of everyone else. I wonder if anyone has compiled a list of National Match serial numbers by year? John Beard perhaps?

It's definitely possible. But I can't say it with absolutely certainty, there's always the possibility that WD Bulletin is very specific on sales only to officers. But from what I found it at NARA, it does not seem limited to officers. Civilians being eligible is an opinion based on the memo and later correspondence discussing the number of civilians eligible to compete on State NG teams. I do not know if there were civilian only teams. Someone else may be able to answer that such as John Beard.

The majority of the National Match SNs I found in the 1919-1920 era were documented to NM Ammo testing, most were already known with a few new ones. I don't recall finding any sales documents. Not saying they didn't happen or the files don't exist, I just didn't come across any.

[Kaliman]

Hey Rick I sent you a message on FB. Seems I have a rifle about 1000 away from your 605k NM