Ammo Shortage ? Primers ? See Video's

[painter777]

Originally Posted by painter777
Anyone recall Reports of Price Gouging $ Fines/Arrests during the toilet paper shortage ?
How and Who do we reach out to about Ammo Price Gouging ?

Before reaching out

I'll be the 1st to agree that the average citizen may not consider Ammo and reloading supplies Vital when compared to milk and bread.
I look at auctions as: List for what ever you want for it. No one is forcing me to purchase.
I do consider it gouging when Commercial Outlets put a $200 (10x) higher price tag over the original price tag of $20.00. Then again I have the option of not buying because I'm plenty stocked. But what about the family of 4 that needs a box of shells to feel safe in their home ? As for private sales, I do have a hard time understanding why fellow shooters would do this to other fellow shooters. Business is business... Greed is greed.

In a different scenario, but as far as reaching out, a number of us did reach out, Quickly which resulted in the reversal of a DOD policy that didn't get the chance to get off the ground.
There was a time back in roughly 2008-2009 that Commercial reloading companies who purchased once fired brass from the US governments DOD--actually purchased from Government Liquidators, llc.--the corporation that sells surplus materials for the U.S. government. These Reloading companies, one of which was Georgia Arms were notified that they could no longer get once fired military brass unless they wanted shredded brass. The US had planned to shred all this brass and bundle it at tax payers cost and sell it to China at a greatly reduced price per pound than the Reloading companies were already paying. Of course the shredded brass was obviously useless to the reloading companies.
Some may remember me posting about this. At the time I called my Congressman Mike Rogers who happens to be a friend and past client to see what was up.
He had his office Email me which basically said there had been such a whirlwind that the new administrations 'Plan' was scrapped. At one time Mike was the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, but I don't recall if it was at this time. I still have a scanned copy of a letter he passed to me from a NRA link that was sent by Sens. Max Baucus and Jon Tester to the head of the DLA: Defense Logistics Agency the procurement arm of the Pentagon.

https://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/DLA.MilitaryBrass.pdf

This happened so long ago it's hard to find current articles. Here's a link to a old one from the Shootist, that I see some errors in but in general describes the situation pretty closely.. though inflated. But you can read the actual letters sent to Georgia Arms:

The Shootist: DOD Ends Sale of Expended Military Brass to Remanufacturers

And while speaking of Commercial Gouging this link seems the Texas Attorney General and Governor feel they have a case. Part of the link reads:

"The Texas AG's office has identified ammunition as a necessity and, as a result, is arguing that those price hikes were against the Texas Business and Commerce Code. The code forbids businesses from "taking advantage of a disaster" by selling "fuel, food, medicine, lodging, building materials, construction tools or another necessity at an exorbitant or excessive price."

Texas AG accuses Cheaper Than Dirt of price gouging during pandemic

Lastly don't hit me with the New Orleans Hurricane example. I left a skeleton crew here and even cancelled a number of jobs to take 24 of my crewmen, 2 motor homes, 2 super crews, 2 vans, 1 travel trailer and 3 job trailers packed with drywall and tools with a semi delivery with more paint/drywall from my Michigan supplier arriving 2 weeks after we got there and spent nearly 7 weeks donating our labor and supplies. Was thanked by some, threatened by local workers, had a pick up and attached job trailer stolen and received a $10,000 fine by the State for not being licensed to perform work in that state. Think about that.... being fined for donated labor and material ? All costs came out of my pocket. I don't ask my crews to work for free. Never got that warm fuzzy feeling for trying to do the right thing. I received my 'Special Attention' from the IRS because I showed no earned income vs my costs which took nearly 2-1/2 years of Audits while paying Tax Accountants to sift thru that mess. Sound sour? It's because I am. IMO if you want to live in a Hurricane Sub Sea level area be prepared to get flooded out. No more handouts from me unless it's going to Wounded Warriors or St Judes. Or the 2-3 jobs I do a year for a needy family in my own hometown.

Finished......... !

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[ssgross]

I do consider it gouging when Commercial Outlets put a $200 (10x) higher price tag over the original price tag of $20.00

Whenever I've seen ammo on the shelves, I haven't noticed such an outrageous price hike. I happened to be in my local Cabela's the other morning right when they were offloading a truck...which had ammo. Limit 5 boxes only imposed on 9mm and 223. They only had 30 or so boxes of 9mm on that truck. Everyone was polite, formed a line, and waited for the lady to put it out on the shelf, and then courteously only took one box so everyone in line could have some. It was $14.99 a box. No one was rushing the 100 boxes of cheap 22lr that was put out. I scored a half dozen bricks of 100 so my kids can plink again without denting my supply of eley. It was $7.99 a brick.
You're right about cheaper than dirt..$100 for 1 box of 50 rounds 9mm I just checked. It's cheaper on gunbroker right now, and supply seems plentiful there so I don't think the price gouging claim will hold water on them. I'm not claiming that some businesses aren't raising their prices, or being greedy, I'm just arguing that it likely doesn't meet the legal definition of price gouging. But that won't stop the Texas AG from venting everyone's frustration, and miring them in costly litigation over it. I'll bet a box of ammo that the AG doesn't win.
I'm not trying to get anyone riled up here. I'm just pointing out that that this kind of thing is not price gouging.
I can certainly see why you are sour on New Orleans. I'll still take you shooting when your supply runs out, even though I seem to have solicited a grumpy face!

[Matt_X]

Am I allowed to post here?
I posted earlier about how Remington's situation plays into the shortage.

[browningautorifle]

Am I allowed to post here?

Of course you are...

---------- Post added at 04:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

Explosion in our local propellant manufacturing facility in 2019 if I recall the date correctly.

Don't think I read about that one, that can't have been good at all.

[Matt_X]

Of course you are...[COLOR="black"]

I ask because I posted and got a message that it needed to be reviewed. Then poof, what Iwrote is gone. I spent some time to be sure of what I posted and included links to the sources.
There was nothing even remotely political in it. Strictly business and manufacturing about the companies that make primers (there's only four in the US) and what happened to one - Remington - this year.

[Matt_X]

I'll just list a few of the references since I dont feel like rewriting

One overview of the primer situation 2020 covers a number of reasons including this:
"The Remington bankruptcy has had a large impact on the shortage of ammo and primers. With Remington in a state of financial insolvency for the past two years, suppliers were demanding payment upon delivery for products. Remington simply did not have the financial capabilities to have an abundance of raw materials on hand and had to shutter some of their production capacity."
quoted from Why Is There a Primer Supply Shortage? | Powder Valley

Results of the Remingon bankruptcy sale included Vista Outdoors purchase of the ammo manufacturing..
American Rifleman | The Keefe Report: An Update on Remington

November 2020 news story about restarting the Arkansas plant.
Arkansas Online: Remington buyer set to return

[ssgross]

Results of the Remingon bankruptcy sale included Vista Outdoors

That explains it. I thought I heard "federal, cci, Speer, and Remington" in the OP videos. The latter sounded weird and confused me. Guess I need to stop skipping over the Keefe Report in my magazines as my assumption that he writes mostly propaganda may be a bit off.

[browningautorifle]

I ask because I posted and got a message that it needed to be reviewed. Then poof, what I wrote is gone.

Curious, can't imagine why either...

[Ignatious]

The wife used to get on me about buying bulk instead of a few boxes. Now she's hunting down anywhere there might be anything and understands when I have a box of something that goes with nothing in the library. Just saw on Gunbroker a 1K box of 5.56 going for $1250 no reserve, and it was bid up to that, not started there. I'd be tempted to sell, except I don't know anywhere that isn't limiting purchases when something arrives or is able to get anything excepts in dribs and drabs. I've seen the ammo guys at the militaria show and gun shows suddenly increase prices on their ancient boxes these past year. It's so bad by me that even the oddball stuff is gone. Last bulk, I saw was four or five 1k boxes of 7.62x39 for stupid money. I don't have a delivery system for that but the price was a 'no' anyway. Gone are the days of the $80 spam can.

And Remington Ammunition; the first vid he's a bit testy. I can understand that but hold it together man. It doesn't help your case to be snippy. Sure looks like a lot of ammo lying around him. Speculators? The supply isn't getting to us as far as I can see. All I see are auctions and stupid prices being paid. Anyone else remember the desert being on fire because they were dumping gas out there during the 'gas shortages?' It seems that someone likes the high prices right now. Best we can all do is just stop buying it and let the market correct. I heard on a different discussion speculation that it may be as late as Sept before things get back to 'normal' whatever that will mean then. Pretty sure Remington/Speer/Federal/CCI could drum up some investment cash for expansion. I know it's not a switch and then you are going, but the machine designs already exist. Is it a raw material issue? Dude in the vid is talking about they are at max capacity so expansion is the next step. Well, then take it my friend. It's called capitalism.

[MSW2]

Of course you are...

---------- Post added at 04:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------



Don't think I read about that one, that can't have been good at all.

Eight people killed. Finding was human error. https://www.iol.co.za/amp/capeargus/news/human-error-part-of-the-cause-behind-denel-explosion-finds-report-35782478
Re-working propellant to meet specs. And some static electricity thrown into the mix.