L42 broken up?

[chosenman]

Sniper Rifles of the Empire L42A1 had L13A1 (green S&B’s) in the 1990’s I assume this is not true? Must admit never seen one in the flesh, only in the book.

Dan, the Royal Marines took additional sniper rifles to their L96's to the Gulf War and mounted the L13A1 on them. The bracket does exist and has been featured on this site. I'm sure Roger Payne and bigduke have mentioned back engineering reproduction examples. I've said it before and I'll say it again i'll take two!

[Peter Laidler]

I had my fingers firmly on the pulse and never saw an official doc relating to the use of an L13 S&B on an L42. Certainly not at HQ SASC or ITDU. It was bandied about several times many years ago and mentioned by several other long standing sniper orientated forumers - who will remember it. So I made it my business while I had endless opportunities, on my doorstep to see what I could find. I saw a couple of Leatherwoods during ITDU trials* on one of the long mounts but an L13 will just not clear it! Additionally, and just like some of the black IWS mounts, they simply weren't interchangeable across the board. This became a problem with full scale issues of the IWS mount because a special instruction had to be issued relating to it. I did see a what can only be described as a ficticious photo of a mock-up L39 look-a-like with something akin to this fitted.

Sorry to sound negative here chaps, but............... If the Marines story has any pedigree I'll certainly take it up further/ask Capt Steve Sxxxxxs who was the SASC Officer at Lympstone at the time
*I had one and used on on my little L98 until I realised what a lot of faffing around it took to use one. 'A cold wet sniper wants simplicity'. Taken straight from the report by none other than Capt Stene Sxxxxxs no less!

[Simon]

Is that quote from DanL96a1 a reference to the Skennerton title?

There was an awful lot of nonsense spouted a few years back about how it must be true about the L42 being issued in Gulf 1 due to Ammo being headstamped L42A1. I know folk always quote "never say never" where the Enfield is concerned but I'll happily wager currency of the realm against anyone who can categorically prove the L42 saw "Official Service" in Gulf 1, sorry but it just didn't happen! I wait, and suspect it will be a long wait, to be proven wrong.

Cheers,

Simon.

[Peter Laidler]

I will do my Spitfires in Burma bet again to reinforce Simons thread. I will give £30 to ANY service charity if it can be substantiated. If you really want old stuff that went down there, then 4x Engineers Centurions and me!

[chosenman]

Can these L42A1 rifles still be sent out from the US?

you should know, you've just bought one in a US auction???????

[Brit plumber]

Sadly theres a Deac L42 for sale in the UK, it was issued with scope No. 23467. Shame, it's £1400 which I suspect is less than if it was still live.

[longebow]

Longbow I think that you are correct to try and save this L42 from being split up, and if it is!! Then allowing both buyers to try and reunite them together as it would be a smae to loose them. I would agree that the L42’s are a unique bit of sniping history. Just out of interested how do you know, that more than half of the L42’s have been destroyed or lost? Simon according to Ian Skenneton book British Sniper Rifles of the Empire L42A1 had L13A1 (green S&B’s) in the 1990’s I assume this is not true? Must admit never seen one in the flesh, only in the book.

DanL96a1: My comment of "half" of the L42A1s being destroyed/lost comes from my notes taken during several conversations with Brian of BDL Ltd, who gleaned this from Peter. Reviewing my notes, in my own order:
1. 10,000 L42/L39 barrels were made.
2. 7,000 L42's made (but more recently down-graded to 1080 converted)
3. Attrition of about "1/2"
4. Out of Service 1992
5. Navy Arms imported (into the USA) about 750 L42/L39 in approximately 1992, with 1/2 L42, 1/2 L39

I'll defer to Peter and Brian for a more definite answer...

Actually, I think I'll take this discussion up a notch, and throw down the gauntlet to publicly request/plead/cajole that our esteemed Armourer Extraordinaire Peter Laidler publish the definitive reference on the British Sniping rifles from WWII to present. I believe that there is a vacuum and desire for this information that could only be satisfied by one with Peter's credentials.
Why am I so bold as to suggest this? Data points:

Telescope Sighting No.32: An inside view of the Snipers rifle telescope by Peter, 1992
An Armorurer's Perspective: .303 No.4(T) Sniper Rifle and the Holland & Holland Connection by Peter with Ian, 1993
The British Sniper, British & Commonwealth Sniping & Equipments 1915-1983 by Ian, 1984

I believe that our community has learned a lot since these references were created (as everything produced by Man becomes dated), and is in serious need of updating. There is too much institutional knowledge that is scattered that would be best assembled into a book of the quality of the "Collector Grade" line of books.

Standing by for cheers of support, or empty bottles in disagreement...

Longebow

[DanL96a1]

I would like to thank you all for this information, I only know about the green S&B on L42’s with the reference, of what I have read in Ian Skennerton book “BRITISH EMPIRE SNIPER RIFLES”, which is described as being used in 1991 gulf war with RM, SF etc it shows a pictures of a very nice L42A1 with kit and green S&B.
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Longbow thank you for this information I agree, I would like to see this information in to a book, as all these little bits of information would be lost in some 10 years time. PL do you think this was a unit experiment by the Royal Marines using the L13A1?

[Peter Laidler]

I would safely say that about half of the production/conversions were scrapped. There was a definate shortage at the end if the attrition rate of L42's, at the three main base level workshops down this end of the world is anything to go by. The figure of 10,000 produced was said by me simply because as you will very probably understand, I was not permitted to disclose certain details at the time!.

As for a book........ Good idea Longebow but writing a book is simple. Getting one published is the difficult bit. And guess what........? The bigger the book, the MORE difficult it is to get it published and guess what another thing...........? Yep........, the LESS people buy it! They prefer to borrow their mates and then quote from it later. I often say it, but I'm not a historian or an expert by any means. I am simply as Armourer that has been doing it a long time and has learned a lot about the fine intricate details of the inner workings of the craft.

One thing did puzzle me about sniper authors........... During my whole 12 or so years at Warminster, not ONE person came and asked us for, or to provide, any information about a snipers, rifles, equipment or photographs for a book. And we had all the course photos going back to the war! Strange isn't it?

[Simon]

I only know about the green S&B on L42’s with the reference, of what I have read in Ian Skennerton book “BRITISH EMPIRE SNIPER RIFLES”, which is described as being used in 1991 gulf war with RM, SF etc it shows a pictures of a very nice L42A1 with kit and green S&B.

Hmmm Old time shoe repairer springs to mind