Are hollow or soft point M2 Ball ammo available in the market

[togor]

I have crossed paths with Jeremy on this subject on other forums. Any pushback on his claims are met with disrespect.

If a regular here says he personally pulled down the ammo leftovers, calling him a liar seems in poor form.

[Jeremy]

I have crossed paths with Jeremy on this subject on other forums. Any pushback on his claims are met with disrespect.

If a regular here says he personally pulled down the ammo leftovers, calling him a liar seems in poor form.

I fully believe he pulled down 19 rounds of ammo.

[oldfoneguy]

Lol...

Surely you have some pics of this rifle nearly destroyed by one round of 220gr "moose ammo"?
Great story however... just not really believable.

PS what brand of 220gr was this?

Gee I didn't realize I had to photo document the situation solely to please you. I have no reason, desire nor time to make up stories.

No I don't remember the brand of ammo off hand from 5 years ago however I do remember it wasn't a familiar brand box.

My friend brought his rifle to a gunsmith because it was completely jammed and he isn't particularly mechanical. I wasn't there or involved in any way other than addressing the ammo he handed me and relaying the story I was told.

I don't know you and haven't had any interaction with you before but believe me when I say I truly don't give a damn what you believe. I certainty hope this is our last encounter.

[Jeremy]

Gee I didn't realize I had to photo document the situation solely to please you. I have no reason, desire nor time to make up stories.

No I don't remember the brand of ammo off hand from 5 years ago however I do remember it wasn't a familiar brand box.

My friend brought his rifle to a gunsmith because it was completely jammed and he isn't particularly mechanical. I wasn't there or involved in any way other than addressing the ammo he handed me and relaying the story I was told.

I don't know you and haven't had any interaction with you before but believe me when I say I truly don't give a damn what you believe. I certainty hope this is our last encounter.

Ok just checking.

So other than him handing you 19 rounds of ammo this is simply "my buddy told so".


The fact is SAAMI spec commercial ammo is perfectly fine in garands that are in proper working order.

220gr ammo such as rem core lokts generate less pressure than many milsurp loads.

Commercial ammo isn't the problem the Internet makes it out to be.

Good oprod spring and properly greased and you won't have issues with SAAMI spec ammo.

The garand gas system is rather forgiving.

[Bill Hollinger]

Lol...

Surely you have some pics of this rifle nearly destroyed by one round of 220gr "moose ammo"?


Great story however... just not really believable.

PS what brand of 220gr was this?

Come on Jeremy! We are not in the habit of calling members liars nor are we going to start now. Let this stand as your only warning.

[Bob Womack]

The issue with the Garand is not over-pressure but timing. The propellant used in the the original cartridges burned slower than more modern formulations these days. The old powder allowed the system to work in time. Modern formulations burn faster, causing the chain of actions to proceed faster than the system is capable of. The system inertia causes the op rod to be caught in the middle between the too-fast gas expulsion as the bullet passes the gas cylinder and a still-locked bolt. BONK!

There is a reason why manufacturers offer "Springfield" load .30-06. It is loaded with the old formula powder and a properly-weighted bullet that leaves the barrel within the capabilities of the gas system and won't cause premature gas expulsion. Use ammo marked "Springfield .30-06" or use mil-surp military ammo for pleasant operation without "parts falling off the man."

Incidentally, this problem, timing due to propellant, was also one of the problems leading to the disastrous introduction of the M-16 in Vietnam as documented by Dick Culver. That problem was too-fast ammunition burn breaking up the timing of the rifle. The rifle was spec'd with ammo that reached a high port pressure after the process of obturation occurred and subsided. Obturation is the process of the cartridge case expanding momentarily from the gas pressure to seal it against the walls of the chamber. If the powder burned too quickly, the gas reached the gas key and forced the bolt open while the case was still obturated. The extractor would simply hop the rim of the case and the case would remain in the chamber, converting the M-16 to a brilliant single shot, manual extraction "mouse rifle," to quote Culver. Along the way of implementing the M-16, the modern, expensive powder spec'd for it was replaced with ball round powder left from the prior wars, and thus the mistiming. Of course, that wasn't the gun's only teething problem but they were all related to budgeting. Culver's explanation is HERE. The mention of this problem is on page 2.

Bob

[Jeremy]

The issue with the Garand is not over-pressure but timing. The propellant used in the the original cartridges burned slower than more modern formulations these days. The old powder allowed the system to work in time. Modern formulations burn faster, causing the chain of actions to proceed faster than the system is capable of. The system inertia causes the op rod to be caught in the middle between the too-fast gas expulsion as the bullet passes the gas cylinder and a still-locked bolt. BONK!

Thats not how it works.

The oprod doesn't begin to move until the bullet is 5-7ft downrange and out of the barrel.
There is no old/modern "formulations". The "older" powder wasn't slower it was more medium/fast.

the "BONK" as you claim doesn't happen in the garand

There is a reason why manufacturers offer "Springfield" load .30-06. It is loaded with the old formula powder and a properly-weighted bullet that leaves the barrel within the capabilities of the gas system and won't cause premature gas expulsion. Use ammo marked "Springfield .30-06" or use mil-surp military ammo for pleasant operation without "parts falling off the man."

As stated above thats not how it works and you can use any weight bullet in the garand with no issues,

Incidentally, this problem, timing due to propellant, was also one of the problems leading to the disastrous introduction of the M-16 in Vietnam as documented by Dick Culver. That problem was too-fast ammunition burn breaking up the timing of the rifle. The rifle was spec'd with ammo that reached a high port pressure after the process of obturation occurred and subsided. Obturation is the process of the cartridge case expanding momentarily from the gas pressure to seal it against the walls of the chamber. If the powder burned too quickly, the gas reached the gas key and forced the bolt open while the case was still obturated. The extractor would simply hop the rim of the case and the case would remain in the chamber, converting the M-16 to a brilliant single shot, manual extraction "mouse rifle," to quote Culver. Along the way of implementing the M-16, the modern, expensive powder spec'd for it was replaced with ball round powder left from the prior wars, and thus the mistiming. Of course, that wasn't the gun's only teething problem but they were all related to budgeting. Culver's explanation is HERE. The mention of this problem is on page 2.

Bob

THAT problem is from a direct gas impingement system which is completely different than the garand .

The garand has a very lossy system and is quite forgiving to powder changes...unlike the AR system.