Parker Hale M85 Serial Number Checks & Provenance on Manufacture (Records)

[rgg_7]

The C3a1 serial number range is very helpful. The couple sn's I've got recorded are within this series.

I'm still trying to pin down the Parker Hale order for the Canadian DND C3's. C Law's book states trials out to Jun 1974. Further states trial was done with a 1200TX stacked up against a Winchester G7041, Carl Gustav CG63 ,L42A1 and FNC1A1 with various scopes and night vision combinations. Would have been great if C Law quoted his source. The nagging question is a) when was the order placed to Parker Hale b) when were these built c) delivered? The earliest spec sheet I have is 1975.

Ron(Canada)

Information

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[Lee Enfield]

...snip...I'm still trying to pin down the Parker Hale order for the Canadian DND C3's. C Law's book states trials out to Jun 1974. Further states trial was done with a 1200TX stacked up against a Winchester G7041, Carl Gustav CG63 ,L42A1 and FNC1A1 with various scopes and night vision combinations. Would have been great if C Law quoted his source. The nagging question is a) when was the order placed to Parker Hale b) when were these built c) delivered? The earliest spec sheet I have is 1975.

Ron(Canada)

Clive did quote his sources for the C3 contract on Page 87 (WoW) footnotes 31 thru 36. (footnotes 32 & 33) where the treasury board objected to supplying "a professional killer's weapon" to reservists and cadets resulting in the reduction of 96 rifles intended for cadets, bringing the order to 334 rifles from the planned 484 (footnote 34)

footnotes 32 & 33 are shown as dating to 3 January 1975
footnote 34 is shown as 19 July 1974

[Gil Boyd]

Ron,
Have you tried a Freedom of Information approach or whatever you might call it over there to DND to perhaps provide you with that info?
Just a thought

[rgg_7]

Great feedback Lee Enfield. I reviewed the footnotes in C Law's book "Without Warning". They reference "confidential memorandum".....puts us in the correct time frame. Gil..would be very interesting to see this information. Anybody know if Clive Law still around? If so, how to contact him?

Cheers,

Ron (Canada)

[Gil Boyd]

A well used example, which is no doubt as good today as it was when it left the factory. Great Pictures

[blurrededge]

After contacting Norman Clark gunsmiths and having a good chat with Bill Smallwood, we worked out what the missing parts were for my M85, fortunately Bill was able to have a good dig around and supply me with everything I need to get it back into decent shape! including an original nato green stock and scope bracket, iron sights etc. Bill's an extremely helpful chap to deal with and obviously pleased to help out Parker Hale enthusiasts.
I was going to bed the action in the new stock myself, but decided it deserved better so I'll post some pics when it's assembled.

Also, a couple of pics of what I assume are hardness test marks on the action, in the form of centre punch dots.
Plus a pic of the proof mark, I think it's for the year 2000 but not sure, emailed the proof house about it, but nothing came back. Can anyone confirm that date please.

Appologies, I feel like I'm semi hijacking the thread

[rgg_7]

Great to see activity here on the M85/M87's as there's not much in the way of documentation. Very curious about your BNP proof. ""F" could be 1980 or 2003; "3" is the Inspector and "D" represents a time period however I'm not familar with the range. Somebody might know the answer? Are there any other markings on your barrel? Is your M85 "blued"? "parkerized" or painted? Ron (Canada).

[Gil Boyd]

The BNP is the stamp for BRITISH NITRO PROOF a commercial requirement for export, and the F after the rifle serial number ie 00299F stands for Field as disclosed earlier on the M85 rifle thread.
The 308 WIN is straight forward but the the crossed flags normally stands for British Empire or Dominion Proofs, just searching for the F D na dhte 3 and will report back

[sd4f]

The 308 WIN is straight forward but the the crossed flags normally stands for British Empire or Dominion Proofs, just searching for the F D na dhte 3 and will report back

That crossed swords stamp is related to the Birmingham Proof House, it dates and identifies the inspector who did the proofing.

This link should clear it up on how to date the proof;
Proof Date Codes

Now it has the 'D' at right, I'm not 100% sure, but I think it indicates which series of years. Since letters can only denote 25 years ('I' wasn't used), I think the 'D' means 1997-2022 and I would hazard a guess that the 'F' denotes that the barrel was proofed in 2003. The '3' below is the inspector number.

[blurrededge]

Thanks Ron and thanks Gil,
The action and barrel are both blued and there's no other markings on the barrel at all. I kind of extrapolated the date of 2000 from proof info I have and finding stuff online but Birmingham proof date codes after around 1997 seem a bit hard to track down. TBH I've only looked for proof date codes on Enfields in the past with no probs, this new stuff's a bit of a mystery.
Matt.