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Legacy Member
Milsurp rifle stock protection, cleaning/finishing questions
I have a Winchester M1917 thats in decent condition, and an Enfield No.1 Mk.3 that is in decent condition also but is extremely dirty, wood metal and all.
First, I'm wondering what these rifles were likely finished with originally, I can't really tell if they have a finish or not, they just have that common reddish brown hue, but no glossy clear sheen. I'm assuming this means they were probably just oil finished when originally in use.
Second, since the Winchester isn't that dirty, I'm wondering if I should just use some Murphy's oil soap to clean it up, and then top off with a little BLO/Tung oil or wax.
and for the Enfield, since it is very dirty, if I should use the same process as the winchester but more vigorously, or if I should do something different altogether.
Don't have any experience refinishing rifle stocks or restoring them, but I don't want to refinish these, I just want to clean them up and then put a coat of protection on afterward. I know there is a lot of information online regarding this, but different sites/threads say different things so I'm wondering what you all recommend. Thanks.
Also why I asked if anyone has an idea of what they may have been finished with in the past, since certain products only are really good if the wood is unfinished.
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11-06-2021 11:01 PM
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You are going to get a plethora of different answers. Some will say leave it as is, some will say strip it, some will say clean it, some will say stain it, some will say BLO it.....its always a fascinating discussion. The first two things you need to determine are:
1. What is my goal with this piece? Restoration to like-new condition? Preservation of it as is?
2. What is the collector and monetary value of the piece?
Example: I just took delivery of a 1918 Carcano M91 Cavalry Carbine yesterday from JG Sales. It arrived in much better condition than I expected other than all of the latches/buttons/etc were frozen. The rifle may have very little value and won't be shot much, but it does fill a spot in my collection. My plan after dismantling it is to clean the wood with Hoppes #9 to remove the old grease,grime and oils. I haven't identified the original finish yet, but it looks like RLO so that is what it will probably receive after the cleaning with Hoppes is done. I'll leave all of the dents and dings in it since the stock hasn't been sanded. The metal parts will get a thorough cleaning and an oil bath followed by an application of CLP protectant.
Answering those 2 questions will guide you to the appropriate course of action. Both of those rifles used raw linseed oil (RLO) as the original factory wood finish. It was cheap, easy to apply, effective in the field and easy to recondition as needed (just wipe it on). I used the above described Carcano process on my No1, No4, No5 and friend's P14 and they all turned out beautifully. They look,feel and smell like they should in their original condition. I didn't compromise their collectible status or value using this process. I hope that helps and I'm sure you will get some more excellent advice from the other contributors here.
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Legacy Member
Thanks. I'm just trying to clean them up for my own personal satisfaction. I know I wont get them to like new condition, and i don't ever plan on selling them so im not worried about collector value, although i don't want to hurt theyre value either. just want them to look and feel good and be protected in a way that is deserved and worthy of my collection ya know. not going to just sit in safe either, as I'll want to shoot them now and then. so thorough cleaning and lubrication is what I'm after. just wanted to do it as well and properly as possible
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Contributing Member
My recommendation is in post #2 of this thread https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....9&goto=newpost
Originally Posted by
j_page2
Murphy's oil soap to clean it up
This is also a harmless way to start.
I'll just say that I think solvents or lubricants with solvents are not a good idea, as these will soak in to the wood fibers and weaken or rot over time. A good original finish of linseed or tung oil will repel a single light wipe-down with CLP or other, but repeated treatments or soaking will damage over time.
Take a look inside some very old stocks, you can see the damage over the years done by repeatedly placing a heavily oiled action in the stock. The end grain in the inletting can be stained and soft, often with a "fibrous" feel, like it was cut out with a spoon. Then contrast to the end grain under the butt plate that likely never saw the light of day again, and never any oil...it's likely still nice tight and sharp.
When you're all done and ready for final assembly, take a trick out of the Enfield armorer's playbook. Any wood-to-metal contact that is not likely to ever see the light of day again would get a coat of grease. Read Peter's article on fitting a new enfield butt, slathering grease in the socket and on the stock bolt - I think NLGI #2 is the modern equivalent. Comes in lots of colors. The white kind is good for stock fitting too...the "mess" is a little less than jerrow's inletting black. Both have their purpose.
Last edited by ssgross; 11-08-2021 at 07:33 AM.
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Contributing Member
Originally Posted by
ssgross
My recommendation is in post #2 of this thread
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....9&goto=newpost
This is also a harmless way to start.
I'll just say that I think solvents or lubricants with solvents are not a good idea, as these will soak in to the wood fibers and weaken or rot over time. A good original finish of linseed or tung oil will repel a single light wipe-down with CLP or other, but repeated treatments or soaking will damage over time.
Take a look inside some very old stocks, you can see the damage over the years done by repeatedly placing a heavily oiled action in the stock. The end grain in the inletting can be stained and soft, often with a "fibrous" feel, like it was cut out with a spoon. Then contrast to the end grain under the butt plate that likely never saw the light of day again, and never any oil...it's likely still nice tight and sharp.
When you're all done and ready for final assembly, take a trick out of the Enfield armorer's playbook. Any wood-to-metal contact that is not likely to ever see the light of day again would get a coat of grease. Read Peter's article on fitting a new enfield butt, slathering grease in the socket and on the stock bolt - I think NLGI #2 is the modern equivalent. Comes in lots of colors. The white kind is good for stock fitting too...the "mess" is a little less than jerrow's inletting black. Both have their purpose.
Just to clarify:
1. The metal gets soaked in an oil coating which is removed prior to reinstalling into the stock
2. The Hoppes solvent pulls a lot of the old oil and grime out of the wood when you apply with small cloth patches. I have also been told that the Hoppes #9 contains banana oil (?) It actually leaves the wood very dry (the Carcano is on its 4th coat of RLO and still soaking it up) and ready for rehydrating with the oil finish of your choice. Once the oil stops absorbing into the wood, you know it is properly rehydrated and will only need reapplication of a thin coat once or twice a year.
Hope that clarified things a little more.
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Contributing Member
The best way that I have found to clean an old MILSURP without removing the finish, just cutting the dirt and grime is the 60/40 mixture of Orange Terpene or Turpentine and raw or better polymerized raw linseed oil. Mix 60% Orange Terpene or Turpentine to 40% Raw linseed oil. Apply the mixture to a cotton rag and rub down the stock, for more aggressive cleaning use burlap .vs the cotton rag.
This cleaner will not remove the finish in the wood, it will just break down the dirt and grime so it can be removed. It will also feed the stock with new oil. Once clean and the solvent has evaporated. Feel free to add a light coat of raw or better polymerized raw linseed oil if you feel it needs it.
Veteran US Navy Seabees - US Army Corps of Engineers - American Legion Post 0867
" Only two defining forces have offered to die for me. 1.) Jesus Christ 2.) The American G.I. "One died for your soul, the other for your freedom! "
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Advisory Panel
Originally Posted by
usabaker
This cleaner will not remove the finish in the wood
By that Bill, I'm guessing you mean the smooth hand rub and natural wear finish? I think once oiled the shine would be back too.
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Contributing Member
By that Bill, I'm guessing you mean the smooth hand rub and natural wear finish? I think once oiled the shine would be back too.
Jim, Yes that is right. The 60/40 is only a cleaner, however, the linseed oil will add a light coat of oil to the stock. Well, a normal stock in what one might expect as normal MILSURP condition. If the stock is dried out, which is normally has little to no oil left in the stock it will drink this cleaner up like there was no tomorrow.
Veteran US Navy Seabees - US Army Corps of Engineers - American Legion Post 0867
" Only two defining forces have offered to die for me. 1.) Jesus Christ 2.) The American G.I. "One died for your soul, the other for your freedom! "
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Thank You to usabaker For This Useful Post:
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Contributing Member
These are my three goto oils for stock that were finished by the factory in linseed oil.
Left to Right: polymerized raw linseed oil colored with Alkanet Root, Linseed/Turpentine, and polymerized raw linseed.
[Attachment 121293
Veteran US Navy Seabees - US Army Corps of Engineers - American Legion Post 0867
" Only two defining forces have offered to die for me. 1.) Jesus Christ 2.) The American G.I. "One died for your soul, the other for your freedom! "
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Legacy Member
for my purposes.. would a more simple process of a light amount of murphy's oil soap to clean, then boiled linseed oil afterward be sufficient? These are the materials I have right now without spending more money. I realize what you have is probably better but for the sake of simplicity would this be satisfactory? also later on I will be applying a coat of wax on the surface but I just want to get the stocks clean and oiled beforehand so i can reassemble the rifles.
the enfield stock may need a more rigorous cleaning, so i may include mineral spirits/BLO/fine steel wool for that if need be. I imagine whatever I wind up doing will probably be more than what was done by GI's in the past anyhow. I just want to make sure i don't damage anything, and wind up with clean, oiled guns that will be protected in a basic manner. not going to expose them to anything except my safe and sunny days at the range.
Feel free to educate me if i have something wrong, I'm just trying to go middle of the road, not too lax or too involved. seems like there are many ways of doing this
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