VICTORY MODEL? 45 and R on barrel

[emmagee1917]

No , there was a short colt , kinda sorta. Back in the wild west days the army adopted a break open revolver called the Schofield which used a round that was basicly a 45LC , but shorter. Because of this , the army issued it in place of 45LC because the Colt SA would take both. It was slightly less powerful than the old 45 Colt , and some perfered to have the more powerful loading. Anyway , because of Schofield being a mouthful , and needing a way to tell the two apart , the terms short and long were used. Not correct or official , but done. The Schofield was soon dropped and preaty much faded into history , but the " Long" tag remained. This might have been helped to continue being used because of the later use of the M1909 45LC and the M1911 45ACP during the same time period and both being connected to Colt.
Oh , and as an aside , did you know the 45 Colt , aka 45 Long Colt , and the 45 M1909 round are not the same ? The M1909 had a rim larger in diam. to make sure it wouldn't slip under the extractor star.
Chris

[jmoore]

I've a box of M1909 ammo, somewhere, now that we've drifted off subject! (And a Colt to go with the rounds...) Worth a thread?

[browningautorifle]

Show us a pic and get us started.

[jmoore]

Gotta find 'em, first. They're not where I am. Give me a few days. I don't enjoy shooting it. New Service revolvers whack me right in the lower thumb joint at the palm due to my short fingers.

haven't even thought about it in several months!

[Johnny Peppers]

No , there was a short colt , kinda sorta. Back in the wild west days the army adopted a break open revolver called the Schofield which used a round that was basicly a 45LC , but shorter. Because of this , the army issued it in place of 45LC because the Colt SA would take both. It was slightly less powerful than the old 45 Colt , and some perfered to have the more powerful loading. Anyway , because of Schofield being a mouthful , and needing a way to tell the two apart , the terms short and long were used. Not correct or official , but done. The Schofield was soon dropped and preaty much faded into history , but the " Long" tag remained. This might have been helped to continue being used because of the later use of the M1909 45LC and the M1911 45ACP during the same time period and both being connected to Colt.
Oh , and as an aside , did you know the 45 Colt , aka 45 Long Colt , and the 45 M1909 round are not the same ? The M1909 had a rim larger in diam. to make sure it wouldn't slip under the extractor star.
Chris

No. The S&W cylinder was too short for the .45 cartridge used in the Colt SAA, which was known as the "Colt's Revolver, Cal. 45" A new cartridge was developed that would fire in both the Colt and Smith & Wesson, and was designated "Revolver Ball Cartridge, Cal. .45". From that time on, only the shortened version was manufactured by the military. The shortened version was also commercially marketed as the .45 Smith & Wesson, but not .45 Short Colt.
The Model of 1909 cartridge has a larger diameter rim for more positive ejection from the Model 1909 Cylinder. Did I know the .45 Colt and Model 1909 Cartridge are not the same?

[emmagee1917]

Johnny , you are correct. However , a few years ago someone posted copies of letters confirming how the name "Long Colt" came about , which information in a nutshell is what I posted. Years ago , when the other post was made , the term was thought to have come about because of the intro of the 45 ACP. His letters proved the term predated that and we ( or at least me ) were wrong.
Chris

[Johnny Peppers]

Johnny , you are correct. However , a few years ago someone posted copies of letters confirming how the name "Long Colt" came about , which information in a nutshell is what I posted. Years ago , when the other post was made , the term was thought to have come about because of the intro of the 45 ACP. His letters proved the term predated that and we ( or at least me ) were wrong.
Chris

The .45 ACP was introduced in 1905, and the box of Remington .45 Colt dates to the 1930's and the box of Western to the 1950's. Apparently there had been no confusion up to that time. I don't put a lot of stock into someone's opinion of something without some type of evidence to back it up, and it sounds like someone's opinion of there being a .45 Long Colt and a .45 Short Colt. If you ever get the chance to pick up "Complete Guide to Handloading" by Phil Sharpe be sure and get it. It has a lot of cartridges that have been obsolete for years. He has information on the .45 S&W and the .45 Colt, and their use by the military.
There was a .32 Long and .32 Short Colt, .38 Long and .38 Short Colt, and .41 Long and .41 Short Colt, but never a .45 Short Colt.
Any manufacturer is quick to jump on anything that will help them sell their product. The use of ".45 Long Colt" had become so prevalent that they seized the opportunity and renamed their product.

[jmoore]

Not everybody has renamed the round. Last I looked, Remington still marks their boxes "45 Colt". I find "45 LC" used in conversation quite the annoyance, still, but folk just look confused when the gaffe is explained. So I quit trying!

[DaveN]

so really unless you all look at this in person we don't know what it will send down range safely? Or could It be fired with 45ACP and full clips ,if I under stand as long as the cylinder closes correctly? Or should I look for the half moons at the gun show tomorrow? Or should I just sell it for a couple hundred to someone who knows what it is, not perfect, but historical, though in poor shape.

[Johnny Peppers]

My honest assessment is to let it go. I have never seen a revolver that seriously modified. There had to be a really bad problem to set the barrel back, and who knows what all else has been done or why. Really nothing to gain by keeping it.