Trying to date an early 1911...

[Rob Greer]

I don't know if there is a quick answer to this one or not. I'm having trouble dating one of my pistols. I have an early Colt, s/n 130778 that is in the suspended Springfield range. Clawson suggests that it is either 1916 or 1917, but I'm trying to get more specific. I will get a research letter if I have to, but I'm just trying to see what I can learn about it before doing so... any ideas? Thanks!!

Information

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[Ken Hill]

Below is info from the old Springfield Records. Good luck


130710 101939 CO L 4TH INF TO 9TH CORPS
130771 092921 BA
130771 080436 FT WORDEN
130805 063032 LT G STATER

[Johnny Peppers]

As you noted, the serial number falls into the range of suspended Springfield Armory numbers. The serial numbers from 127999 to 133186 were used by Colt for replacement receivers, although it is my understanding that the serial numbers are not in Colt's records. Since they were not shipped by Colt as finished pistols, the serial numbers may not have been recorded. The receivers were used by Springfield to assemble pistols as needed. Most of the parts used to assemble the pistols are mixed and what Springfield happened to have on hand.

[Rob Greer]

Thank you both for the info and feedback!

This particular pistol has a Colt's commercial slide converted (marked) with the standard military markings. So, if this piece was finished by Springfield, would they have used Colt's commercial slides to complete pistols, or did Colt's complete the pistol?

I will take some pictures of this piece to share in the next couple days.

[Johnny Peppers]

Springfield would have used any parts which were still serviceable that came in on pistols to be rebuilt. The slide dates from mid 1918 while the replacement receiver dates to 1915/1916. More than likely the slide and receiver came together during a rebuild following WWI.

[Rob Greer]

From your comments, I assume that the commercial slides that were military marked are from the 1918 range? The frame is a couple years earlier? Is it possible that the two were mated together and shipped as a new pistol? To me, this piece looks totally unadultered and original. As I mentioned earlier, I will take pictures soon... is there anything in particular that would be helpful to have a picture of, or are you confident it will be as stated?

[Johnny Peppers]

Pictures would certainly help, especially a shot of the top of the receiver.
Colt had already shipped the replacement receivers to Springfield Armory, and would not have assembled the pistol.

[Rob Greer]

Well, here is a picture of the double markings on the slide. Unfortunately, it is the only picture I seem able to upload to Photobucket right now. I'm still working on the others.



On the top of the receiver are 2 marks by the disconnector hole. "G" at roughly 6 o'clock, and "H" at 12 o'clock. I do have a picture of that too...

[Johnny Peppers]

The slide appears to be original finish. There is always the possibility that the slide was also sent to Springfield as a replacement part.
Your description of the markings on the top of the receiver are consistent with the replacement receivers. The H is the provisional inspector's mark, the G is the government contract marking, but it lacks the assembler's mark which is normally found in the 1:00 position.
Here is an example with the H and G marking, and also having the assembler's mark b (lower case). The b identifies the assembler as Colt employee James M. Malloy. The assembler's mark was moved to the lower left triggerguard bow in 1918.

[Rob Greer]

Ok - stil having issues uploading pictures. Got 2 more, but not the receiver...
Sorry for the glare and shadows... I'll post rhe receiver picture as soon as I can.

Here is the left side...


... and here is the right