.22 Enfield's Part 2

[Lance]

Second Installment, more to follow as the holiday's continue...

.22 Short Rifle Mk III

A conversion of a SMLE ConD II or II* by fitting a SMLE Mk III profile sights and barrel in .22 calibre. In my opinion a very hard rifle to find in pure condition as all the examples I have come across have seen NZ service and have been “upgraded” to .22 Short Rifle Mk IV* status in the early 1920’s. The upgrade from Mk III to Mk IV* status was accomplished by stamping the roman numeral “IV*” somewhere on the receiver. So technically it is still a Mk III but to a purist it is not.

Below are pictures of two Enfield converted examples, one textbook and one not.

The textbook example is a NZ upgrade of a 1907 Enfield Cond II*, which was originally a LSA MLM or MLE of some type. As you can see the receiver markings have been upgraded to show IV*. Of interest is that when the volley sites were removed on this rifle the forend hump was also sanded smooth. A first for me as most either just have the dial removed, or have the dial removed and plate ground flat, or have the whole unit removed and the hole patched. Unfortunately "bubba" installed a pointer on the dial plate scratching it and the forend. I removed the sight but the scratches remain... A close look at the plate shows that a "22" stamp was added to the plate, coincidence?

The non-textbook example is a NZ upgrade of a 1906 Enfield SMLE Mk I*, there are no markings under the dumb bell spring on the other side. The receiver markings are interesting as it has a two crowns one for Edward VII and one for George V and a double “Enfield”. Why this was done is a mystery to me, possibly a very patriotic employee at Enfield?? These SMLE Mk I* conversions are also found in the .22 Patter 1914’s, but that is later. Added during the NZ upgrade is the “IV*”

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Lance]

.22 Short Rifle Mk IV, .22 Short Rifle Mk IV*, Rifle No. 2 Mk IV*

The most plentiful of .22 calibre version of the Lee Enfield made from converted SMLE Mk III, III*, ConD IV and new receivers.

Many names but basically one rifle. The Mk IV* is an Mk IV that was upgraded by the addition of an empty magazine for shell collection in 1925. In 1926 British small arms were renamed thus the Mk IV* became Rifle No. 2 Mk IV*.

Approved in 1921 these conversions are found with dates into the late 1960’s early 1970’s making collecting just these types of rifles endless.

Below are two of the hundreds of different variations out there; in the previous posting, my .22 Short Rifle Mk III‘s are technically Mk IV* also!

.22 Short Mk IV converted from a 1915 BSA Mk III, I have incorrectly installed a magazine on the rifle because I had one to install. This rifle made its way to Canada (Canadian proofed all over) where it had a Cooey Model 10 rear sight installed so that it could mimic the No.4 rifle. I have found it difficult to find a receiver that has just “IV” stamping without the asterisk added.

Rifle No. 2 Mk IV* is a 1941 Parker Hale conversion from a 1917 BSA SMLE Mk III*. Due to the markings on the rifle it is possible to identify the exact contract that produced this rifle. In May 23, 1941 Parker Hale was awarded a contract for 2,000 No.2 Mk IV*’s converted from DP rifles. This rifle has had “DP” stamped into the barrel, then it was canceled and “PH” stamped above it. Also note the “PH 1941” stamp on the butt. Regulations were also relaxed due to the war effort so this rifle is fitted with a tubed barrel instead of the standard solid barrel.

[Lance]

Forgot to add for the super crazy collectors. The 1941 PH conversion appears almost unissued so I would assume that all the parts on it are original from PH. This rifle has a '41 dated Lithgow rear sight protector. Did Australia also send spares to England during the early days of WWII??

[scrmblerkari]

Dear Lance et al.,
I believe I have a rifle very close to the BSA/Parker Hale conversion you have described above. It is a BSA Sht LE III, 1915, with the III crossed out with two lines and No 2 IV* stamped below in identical style as yours.
Elsewhere the comparable stamps and lettering that I can see are identical in style, font, location. I could not see the PH 1941 stamp on the butt in the pictures you posted, however mine has the Parker Hale wartime code, M192, and the number 1948 stamped on the top flat of the receiver, directly behind the DP and PH stamps on the knox form. Mine actually went from EY to DP, both crossed out, before the PH, in the same font and size as those in your photo.
There are other similarities and differences, which I will try to illustrate in my next post, after I select some comparable photos. For example, mine has a Cooey 10A sight installed, but the sight has a British broad arrow acceptance
stamp on the sight. Only the base has the Canadian acceptance stamp. I have been trying for quite some time to figure out the history of my rifle with patient help off-line from another member of this forum, and it appears that you have just posted the missing key piece of information needed.
Will post pictures shortly, Scrmblerkari

[scrmblerkari]

I briefly described the BSA/PH conversion which I believe is a close relation of Lance's BSA/PH in the post above this. Here are some photos which should help the comparison. I have many more, particularly of inspection or view marks, what I believe are reconditioning date marks, and proof marks.
I think it a particularly interesting feature of this rifle to see the broad arrow
at the bottom of the elevation scale on the 10A sight, which I take to mean that it passed through British stores before installation in England. It also has
the elevation scale for the .22 aperture auxiliary rear sight Mk. 1 on the volley sight staff. (Anybody got one of these sights?)
I welcome any and all comments as I am just learning about these rifles. I have photos of another one, not belonging to me, which I borrowed from a
local (friend's) gun shop and extensively photographed. That should be a new thread?
Kari

[Lance]

Very nice rifle Kari, very similar markings belonging to the 2000 DP conversions.

You are correct on the M192 code being Parker Hale's WWII identification number. Many lend lease .22's were marked with M192 and a post war date in order to tidy up the paperwork, for some reason yours was included. I have also enclosed a better, but poor, pic of the PH1941 butt stamp on my rifle.

Upon examination of my Cooey sight on my Canadian .22 Short Mk IV*, I too have the broad arrow military stores acceptance mark, but mine is not as nice as yours. (GOOD CALL, never noticed it until now!!)

This mark I feel was just meant to signify government ownership/produced for government contract, rather than British ownership as the bases were most likely manufactured by separate Canadian contractor and the sights by Cooey. Not to say your rifle is not strictly British issue, as this cannot be proven either way due to the lack of other ownership marks on the rifle itself. Sight that are not broad arrow marked could be simple Ross rifle removals

This is part of the fun/pain of collecting, you never know....

I have yet to come across a complete Aux. rear sight set up. I did have a graduated rear volley site like yours until I gave it up to another collector that had to have it. I know of a couple complete sets in Canada, but both collectors are willing to wait for their estate sales to part with them!

Thanks for sharing, keep on collecting! Pic's of your other rifle would be great.

[scrmblerkari]

Dear Lance et al.,
Your answer to the question about the significance of the number 1948 is a little unclear to me. Do the similarity of the markings place my rifle among the batch of 2,000 built per contract in 1941 or is it more likely to be a "clean-up" rifle actually built in 1948, in spite of the wartime code? To me it is a critical question.
I originally thought, based on information received from another most helpful collector, that use of the code was halted at the end of WWII. Thus the presence of the code pointed to a possibility that "1948" is a production number, not a date stamp. What do you think?
One of the things that I like about this rifle is that it is mostly unaltered except for relining and a .22 bolt. So the history from 1915 to the '50s is there to be deciphered from all the inspectors' marks, view marks, proof marks & refurb dates, as I become more familiar with Enfield Rifles and understand them through study and the help of these forum members.
Thanks, Kari

[Lance]

Greetings Kari

I understand your confusion, I am almost certain that your rifle is from the 1941 contract.

After WWII due to the quantity of lend lease .22's of all types, many that I have seen and owned have late 1940's dates with the M192 stamp. For example a Winchester Model 67 .22 had a 1947 date stamp and M192 and a Mossberg 42MB had a 1948 date along with M192 exactly like yours.

I feel that these were contracted inspection by Parker Hale of misc .22's in the system, possibly prior to return to the USA. Your rifle is the first No.2 Mk IV* I have seen with the mark, so I would guess that it ended up in the system and was checked over in 1948 also. Can anyone else provide some concrete details on the PH 1947-48 inspections??

[Mk VII]

I've got one of those M192/1948 ones as well.
The P.H. Arms Co. was a subsidiary of Parker Hale whose main business was the cleaning and repair of government smallarms, and their conversion to .22 . Don't know why they felt it necessary to set up a separate company, might have been for tax reasons.

[scrmblerkari]

Lance, thank you for giving me some closure on the story of my rifle. I have been trying to puzzle it out for quite some time. I've only the one rifle, and not many opportunities to examine others, so I'm working in a vacuum except for the forums and the help of a friendly collector. I've gotten most of the available books on the subject of Enfields, I believe, but none of them seem to go into the kind of detail I need. My next project, after posting pics of the post-war trainer I borrowed, is filling in the earlier history of my rifle. There are so many marks on the barrel and receiver that I'm sure it will take a long time to reconstruct. In any case, it is the best way to learn.
Mk VII, thanks for your added insight on the Parker Hale company, and especially for the photo of your sight. I've an old picture but yours is much better! My rifle has the graduated staff already. Now I know what to look for in every box of old sights at every gun show and gun shop I visit.If I find one then the rifle will be equipped with three different sights!
Best regards, Kari