96 swede reciever strength

[lamarpye]

Gentlemen, I have a carl gustav 96 mauser and was told that I should not load to the potential of the 6.5x55 round. Till now I've been using factory ammo but would like to reload for this amazing round and get about 2750 fps with a 140 grain boat tail. The factory ammo I'm using flies at just 2400 fps and seems mediocre compared to some of the scandinavian loads across the pond. Will this rifle take a non neutered load safely?

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[Calif-Steve]

If you stick to Norma, Privi, ammo, etc., you will be just fine. They are mostly WWI era rifles and are not very hard. If you stick to the higher grade factory ammo you will be just fine.

[bearhunter]

Accross the "POND", they expect the shooter to know the limitations of his firearm. Not like here, in North America, where litigation lurks behind ever fool that "thinks" something should be OK. No offence intended Calif-Steve.

The Norma ammunition, as we see it in North America is "hot". It is made for modern commercial rifles. In Europe, they commercially load for the 96/96-38 style rifles.

The confusion comes from the commercial 96 actions, which are in calibres like 30-06, 9.3x63 and 8x57, to name a few. These cartridges are all usually loaded in the 45,000 to 48,000 psi range, even in North America. These actions seem to be suitable for this range of pressures.

The 6.5x55 cartridge can certainly give much better performance than is usually found in commercial loadings but, pressures with the long for diameter bullets, climb at an exponential rate.

I won't say that it will cause a kaboom but a steady diet of this through a 96 action may stretch it or set the lugs back a bit. After 1938, the Swedes changed the steel they used in their bolt action rifles. Supposedly it's a bit stronger. Something to do with the sulphur content.

I have also seen more than one Swede go kaboom from hand loads in the 50,000 psi + range. One was as ftred and matching, the other three were mixmasters.

I'm not knocking the M96 in any way, I really like them. There just isn't any sense in pushing the pressure limits in such a decent rifle, especially when it's a well documented fact that their limits aren't as high as modern rifles.

It's your call in your rifle, is it worth the chance of damage to you rifle?

[Calif-Steve]

My good buddy is a retired gunsmith. He says the M96's are very easy to drill and tap. The steel is nothing like an 03-A3. Right before WWII the Germans figured out how to harden steel for their Mausers, and all WWII German Mausers tend to be very hard. No one else in Europe did this. However, as the M96 shoots a lower pressure 6.5x55mm cartridge and they are just fine. Europeans do not shoot anything like Americans. Ammunition is expensive in Europe and ranges are limited. Americans shoot like crazy and enough shooting will wear out a barrel in no time. This will also stretch a receiver. So there you are, good luck.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Dear lamarpye, I am worried by the desire to reach 2750 fps. Why that? Because it's a nice round number? Forgive me, but you must do what the rifle can, not what you would like. You can get more than 2400 fps with the 140 gn HPBT, certainly, but chasing after maximum velocity is the wrong aim. In fact, if you want maximum accuracy up to 100 yards, then you would be better served by the 123 gn Lapua Siver Jacket.

I recommend that you purchase the Vihtavuori reloading manual and make up loads EXACTLY as they describe. Years of experimentation have confirmed again and again that, following all good practice and working up the loads gradually - I just end up with the "accuracy load" in the Vihtavuori manual. There really is no point in trying to re-invent the ballistic wheel for the M96.

You will note that the loads in the book (for 139/140gn) use fairly slow powders. That is because the case is large (for the caliber) and the barrel is very long (for the caliber). So, ballistically speaking, the load has plenty of time to push the bullet up to speed, rather than giving it an almighty whack. That is good for the action, good for your shoulder, and good for accuracy.

The only variable you will need to establish for your particular rifle is the optimum seating depth, as the M96 chambers were NOT (got that? NOT) made to SAAMI standards. So don't let any wise guy stick a modern gauge in your chamber and tell you the rifle has excessive headspace. Those rifles were made long before SAAMI or even CIP, and the Swedes had their own gauges - see this reference:

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/headspace.html

After the first firing in your rifle, make sure that you only use neck-sizing, on cases that have been formed in your rifle. That way, your rifle will perform quite happily for another shooter's lifetime. The cases will not last so long, but they will last well.

In practice, you will probably find that the magazine well limits the maximum OAL you can use.

Stick to the Vihtavuori book. It works. Excellently.

Patrick

[gunner]

Well said Patrick,
i´m using the VV Guide too and have to say that they are very good. I´m using a 139 grs Lapua Silver Scenar with VV N140. Good accuracy and no hot load.

http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_...deEdition8.pdf

Here is the VV Reloading Guide

Regards

Gunner

[lamarpye]

Thanks for all of your advice guys! I've used this rifle with Federal Fusion factory ammo which lists the MV at 2530 (haven't chronographed it yet) and have had no problems at all. I'm using it as my deer rifle and it's an absolute tack driver and I do NOT want a kaboom by exceeding factory velocities. I've bought a set of Lee collet dies and will neck size only to see how the sierra 140's will do at long range. I'm so very impressed with this round so far and was hoping to squeeze a bit more out of it, but it's not worth the risk.
I'm well aware that the fastest round is not necessarily the most accurate but it's human nature to sometimes push the envelope a bit.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Sierra 140gn HPBT is good to VERY long ranges.
Lapua Scenar Siver Jacket is even better. How much, probably depends on your rifle.

Patrick

[metzgeri]

A couple of years ago while load developing for an m/96, I used H4831 to push 144gr FMJBT bullets to the highest average velocity of 2672 fps. This was within published reload data and on the upper end.

So, with that in mind, you could easily push a 140gr bullet to 2700fps and probably 2750fps and still stay within published thresholds for powder weight. The key here is to use the correct bullet/powder combo.

Having said that, though, my most accurate groups were with loads hovering around 2630 to 2640 fps (small groups and very low standard deviation of velocity). This was with load data that was about mid-range of published data. So this tells me it's not the speed but the "sweet spot" to shoot for (no pun intended ).

I have found since that of the several other m/96 rifles I have developed for, no two are the same. So, YMMV!!! That's the fun of load development, atleast for me. Good luck with yours!!

metzgeri

[jon_norstog]

Lamar,

I've been shooting swedes with reloads for a long time. I did blow one up, that was where I learned to weigh 4350 instead of throwing it off the measure. What a fiasco. Other than that I've never had problems with the '96, and that includes loads that flatten the primer.

That said, the most accurate load is not always the hottest load, and that's what the 6.5 is all about.

I have heard that the steel in the Carl Gustaf receivers had a bit of nickel in it (swedish steel) and was a little stronger than what went into the german-made rifles. I'll believe it when I see the engineering lab results.

In any case, I've had good luck with most 140 grain bullets and 44 gr of 4350. That's not a load that will hurt your rifle. I've gone to 45 gr. in my own rifles with no problem and could go higher I suppose, but why?

good luck!

jn