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Advisory Panel
I agree that the sling doesn't seem to even be fixed in the proper place, but stranger things. He also doesn't have a mag on and being a tech type those photos were more for fun on their part then anything. BUT...if you go to War Baby, in pic 185 on page 225 you see Larry Ruth holding a carbine stated to be model 4, M1 E3 (M1A3) with that exact bayonet lug. In the Springfield Armory. If I am correct, Howa made them for the J.D.F. ? And they also were a cross pinned barrel mounted lug? Then in pic 272 on page 286, type C band the T2 has a short lug but it's on an extended band and this isn't it. In any case the book states work order for Jul 7 1945 directed bands be replaced with completion date of 1 Jan 46. The lug we know today was approved on 10 May 1944.
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Thank You to browningautorifle For This Useful Post:
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01-13-2011 11:25 AM
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Roy Dunlop, the famous gunsmith, served in the Ordnance Department throughout the Second World War. He served in North Africa and the Phillipine Island campaigns and spent time in Occupied Japan at the war's conclusion. I consider him to be the last word on the M-1 carbine update matters as he was repairing damaged weapons coming in from the battlefield. He notes in his excellent WWII memoir "Ordnance Went Up Front" that he first saw the 30 round carbine magazines on a few M-1 and M-2 carbines coming back for repairs during the Phillipine campaign of Oct. 1944-April 1945.
So, the long and the short of things---both the M-2 carbine and the 30 round magazine were in service by early 1945 as verified by this unimpeachable primary reference sort of guy who was not only in proximity to the battlefield but was in a position to know what he saw. By extension, this would also mean that the bayonet lugged barrel band and the adjustable rear sight were also in use at least on a limited basis before the war ended.
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firstflabn
Guest
Bill, nice bayo photo from Italy. Can you tell from the original whether that carbine has an adjustable rear sight too?
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I would bet none made it by the time the ink was dry and war over and were in combat by the end of WW2. Yes it is a ongoing battle by collecters to make there not correct WW2 be correct. Show me the dates on the photo,s. Most books were made after ww2 and put together with undated photo,s. Some still try try to make a silk purse out of pig.
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My dad carried an Inland on Iwo from D-Day +6 on that had a Type II rear sight, but no bayonet lug. The M2 carbine training video I had Badger post was from early 1945 (pre-Okinawa) and compared it to Jap weapons.
Last edited by imarangemaster; 01-14-2011 at 06:48 PM.
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Legacy Member
The fighting in the Philippine's didn't end till the war ended in August 1945. That was the only front that M2 carbines and type 3 barrel bands were used. The picture of the troops in Italy do not have type 3 bands on their carbines. Look close and you will see that they have grenade launches on their carbines not bayonets. Many of the pictures from the war were often mislabeled by the magazines they appeared in as to date and location many times by accident and sometimes at the request of the military so as not to pass on information to the enemy.
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Legacy Member
Originally Posted by
Bruce McAskill
Look close and you will see that they have grenade launches on their carbines not bayonets.
Boy, it sure looks like the guy in the top center (with the helmet, firing toward the left) has a bayonet. There is what looks like the handled under the barrel, and the part projecting beyond the muzzle appears to be below the barrel and kind of pointy, as compared with the soldier immediately to his right (rifle pointing up, clearly a grenade launcher installed).
Granted, the photo gets pretty pixelated when zoomed-in,but that is sure what it looks like on this frosty morning.............
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Advisory Panel
The whole pic doesn't make sence. There's this group on the left looking like they're in action, about four bottom right with weapons down and Thompson unloaded. There's four top right with hands in pockets disinterested and one lone guy eating. What I remember about enemy contact is everyone is interested and in some way involved. But the guy pointing his carbine? It DOES LOOK like a bayonet from here. But to me, the pic look like Korea too.
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The whole pic doesn't make sence. There's this group on the left looking like they're in action, about four bottom right with weapons down and Thompson unloaded. There's four top right with hands in pockets disinterested and one lone guy eating. What I remember about enemy contact is everyone is interested and in some way involved. But the guy pointing his carbine? It DOES LOOK like a bayonet from here. But to me, the pic look like Korea too.
According to the caption on the photo:
American infantrymen chatting as they assemble & try out rifles they have chosen at hillside ammunition & supply station overlooking valley & the hills beyond on the Italian front in the Appennine Mountains.
To me, it looks like the guy aiming up the hill is holding a larger rifle - maybe it's not a carbine?
Last edited by USGI; 01-15-2011 at 04:02 PM.
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Senior Moderator
(Milsurp Forums)
Bruce, I'm sorry but that is a bayonet. The photo is dated by who took it and the fact that she was NOT anywhere taking photos but during WWII and in the ETO.
I can't see if the rear sight is adjustable.
Bill Hollinger
"We're surrounded, that simplifies our problem!"
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