Martini Cadet

[Vasious]

Hello All

On the theory the olny silly question is the one unasked

I have a Martini Cadet in Francotte action in 297/230

Does anyone have any idea of it could be rechambered/borred for light 45 (Long)Colt?

Cheers

Information

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[TheDoubleD]

Why on earth would you want to do that to a very collectible rifle, especially if the bore and chamber is good and rifle is complete. i haver and shoot a 297/230 Morris in a francotte and it shoot quite well. It requires some investment but put in shooting order, but the effort is well worth it,

Surely you can find some bubba'd rifle down there that you work with.

The 45 Colt is consider too large for the little Francotte and BSA action. The barrel tenon is to small and the walls of the chamber will be to thin and can bulge.

[Three-oh]

Hi,
This is my first post, but I agree...Leave it as it is,it would be a shame to alter it from original, as there are plenty of other small calibre cadets around in .310 and even a heap of "Sportco" .22 cal. rimfire cadets, just waiting to be altered.
Last week I picked up a Francotte 297/230..and I am after info as regards to dating this rifle.
Where can I find info on Date of manufacture, date purchased by our Govt. etc.,
I believe that in NSW Australia, where I`m from that it is considered as an antique, and ammunition is deemed to be "OBSOLETE" and "NOT COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE", therefore this rifle does not need to be registered? Seems strange to me, but that is the way it reads on the "Firearms registry" site.
The only visible marks are "Auguste Francotte & Co. Leige" on the Knox form,and a "Rondell" with Francotte etc on the off side side plate of the action, above the words "Commonwealth of Australia" and the No. 68951
There are some stampings on the stock, "NSW"...."1414" and "1108" Maybe this will help I.D. this firearm,
Love this site, and it`s great to be part of it.
Cheers, and thanks in advance for your assistance.
I can post some pics if you`re interested.

[Three-oh]

Hi,
This is my first post, but I agree...Leave it as it is,it would be a shame to alter it from original, as there are plenty of other small calibre cadets around in .310 and even a heap of "Sportco" .22 cal. rimfire cadets, just waiting to be altered.
Last week I picked up a Francotte 297/230..and I am after info as regards to dating this rifle.
Where can I find info on Date of manufacture, date purchased by our Govt. etc.,
I believe that in NSW Australia, where I`m from that it is considered as an antique, and ammunition is deemed to be "OBSOLETE" and "NOT COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE", therefore this rifle does not need to be registered? Seems strange to me, but that is the way it reads on the "Firearms registry" site.
The only visible marks are "Auguste Francotte & Co. Leige" on the Knox form,and a "Rondell" with Francotte etc on the off side side plate of the action, above the words "Commonwealth of Australia" and the No. 68951
There are some stampings on the stock, "NSW"...."1414" and "1108" Maybe this will help I.D. this firearm,
Love this site, and it`s great to be part of it.
Cheers, and thanks in advance for your assistance.
I can post some pics if you`re interested.

[Vasious]

Why on earth would you want to do that to a very collectible rifle, especially if the bore and chamber is good and rifle is complete. i haver and shoot a 297/230 Morris in a francotte and it shoot quite well. It requires some investment but put in shooting order, but the effort is well worth it,

.

The converson Idea come from the chap I bought it off, he was looing at converting it to 32-20?.
That said I did realise Buffalo arms had the dies and ships to my fair country.
So how do I work out what size morris 297-230 it is?

[Patrick Chadwick]

So how do I work out what size morris 297-230 it is?

You don't work it out! You just read this:

.297/230 Morris short .297/230 Morris long
Chamber dimensions in mm.
Sized, unfired cases will be a few thou smaller.

L1 (base to shoulder) 8.74 8.74
L2 (base - start of neck) 10.52 10.52
L3 (base - case mouth) 15.24 20.83

As the difference is in the neck length, you will need a chamber casting, an empty .297/230 long case (to see if it chambers) or sensitive depth measurement to tell the difference. However, if your chamber is very clean, so that you have a good view, then with the Morris short the neck is shorter than the main body (base-shoulder). With the Morris long, the neck is longer than the main body.

When you have extablished which one you have, then according to my "Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversion" it is possible to make the cases by reforming .22 Hornet cases, using a .25 ACP die to form the shoulder at the right length. I imagine that would be considerably cheaper than buying new Morris cases!

[Three-oh]

Hi,
I see you are located in NZ not far from me...lol.
I`m in Australia, just over the ditch.
I have some thermo sensitive plastic beads, that when placed in boiling water become quite soft and pliable, enabling you to make a simple cast of your chamber without causing any damage whatsoever.
I have just done my Francotte and have a perfect cast of the chamber.
Its simple ...1.Push a cleaning patch down the barrel to within about 1 inch (25.4mm) of the breech/chamber end
2. place beads in boiling water for about 2 mins. take them out of the water and squeeze/knead the plastic between you fingers to enable it to be pushed into the chamber, it`s quite pliable for about 2-3 mins.feels a bit like plasticene..or play dough.
3 Push soft plastic into chamber and force it in with a tool ( paddle pop stick?), you may need to put a bit of pressure on the cleaning patch to keep it in place and not be pushed up the bore, use a cleaning rod to hold it down
4. wait about 5 mins until the "plug" has gone hard, and then push it out with the patch and cleaning rod ! PRESTO! one cast of your chamber, and no probs of any damage, or bits sticking in the rifling etc. Note: you will have to remove the action before you do this, it makes life a lot easier,
also...this stuff can be re-softened and used hundreds of times on any chamber you wish to check! Just drop it in the hot water, and go again.
So if you like I can post some of this over to you, Give me an address/Post Office box or whatever and I`ll send it off.
Cheers,
Roger in OZ

[Vasious]

Thank you Patrick for the measurements and that you Thee-oh for the offer of the plastic mound.

I managed to measure the internals to the end of the case mouth to approximateley 0.82 inches which seems to suggest the Morris long from the figures Patrick provided.

Time to save up for the die, and get the rifle nice and clean.

I shall keep you chaps posted.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Glad to be of assistance!
And Three-oh, what is the commercial name of this thermoplastic material? I would like to see if I can find some here in Mauserland.

[Three-oh]

Hi Patrick,
I`m not sure of the trade name, but I`ll contact the guy I got it from and see if he can help me out.
It comes in small white beads about 2mm in dia. and turns to a clear plasticene like substance when it gets hot ie; soaked in hot water, then upon cooling, turns back to white, and quite hard, and holds it`s shape, with minimal shrinkage upon cooling.
I1ll get back to you by tomorrow with an answer and availability.

Roger.