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  1. #1
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    Winchester Hotckiss

    G'day guys

    In the local shop today, saw a "Winchester Hotchkiss" in 45-70. I know there is a few models of it which i dont understand, it has a one piece stock and is full length. I googled pics of it but i cannot seem to find a pic that matches as the rifle i saw as it seemed to have a marking disk embedded in the stock. Other than that i was unable to get a good look at it as it was hanging on the wall and i was in a hurry

    Would you guys be able to provide some details on this family of rifles? Even wikipedia is scarce on info

    Thanks

    P.S i realise i misspelled "Hotchkiss" on the forum title!
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    Last edited by BushyFromOz; 12-23-2011 at 09:18 AM. Reason: stupid spelling error

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  3. #2
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    If original 1-piece stock - grab it!

    Quote Originally Posted by BushyFromOz View Post
    Other than that i was unable to get a good look at it as it was hanging on the wall and i was in a hurry

    Well I hope you soon have time to go back and take some photos.Better still, buy it! Then we can find out which version it is!.

    The following information is taken from Greenhill:

    M1878 trials version - several hundred made
    1879 version - about 2500.
    1883 version 45-70-405, recognisable by two-piece stock, military quantity not stated. But about 60,000 total, which were sold commercially as sporting rifles.

    From a collectability/rarity point of view, it makes a lot of difference which version is concerned. So we need photos! If as you say it had a one-piece stock, then it might be one of the first two versions, and thus very rare indeed. But no bets without photos!


    Patrick

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    i went back and took pics, but my iphone refuses to talk with itunes and upload it to my computer...... technology be damned!

    Anyway, took notes....

    Its a winchester hotchkisss, all the patent dates etc are on the left side of the recever
    Calibre is 45-90 not 45-70
    Stock marking disk has "RFS" inside an oval stamped on it 3 times and another stamping which i cannot make out, it appers to factory fitted
    Missing nosecap and cleaning rod
    Slot for cleaning rod has been patched over (very well done job too i may add)
    Has some bubba damage to one of the the barrel band where it has had a screw put through it into the woodowrok. The barrel band has a crown over a number (blocked by screw) but does not appear to be original hardware to me as the patina is different from the rest of it. The other barrel band closer to the cleaning rod is missing.
    Magazine cutoff and ?safety? are the two small thumb lever on the side of the action, not the switch bedded in the stock
    woodwork is in good-excellent condition for its age (i guess)
    The rear sight looks like its on backwards compared to the pictures of others i have seen on google.

    A hunch tells me it has been adapted for range use.
    Last edited by BushyFromOz; 12-23-2011 at 06:44 PM.

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    Worth a haggle, maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by BushyFromOz View Post
    A hunch tells me it has been adapted for range use.
    That seems almost certain. 45-90 was (as far as I know) never a military caliber. For a keen BPCR shooter, that sounds like something that might be interesting as a project gun if it's cheap enough. and it ough to be cheap, because re-chambering is an irreversible alteration, thus really spoiling it for a collector. The rest can probably be made to look respectabe again.

    How about a little haggling, waving some of that folding stuff with steadily depreciating long-term value, commonly known as money?


    Patrick

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    Oddly, all three versions surface in these parts from time to time, with no great variation in prices. (Except allowing for those folk who hope to retire off of every sale.) The last ones I saw were mixed in with a bunch of other rarer or more interesting rifles (to me) so they eventually went away. (Possibly back to the consignor.) Condition is everything with these rifles, as far as price. Considering the modifications, this one ought to be pretty inexpensive.

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    what would be a "reasonable price" be? i really dont have a use for it, but it looks interesting.

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    In Australiaicon? I've no idea! But as a mere curiosity, I wouldn't get too excited. Unless it's really some rare commercial variation of which I've never heard, surely less than $1000.

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    Ill pass it up, i believe after looking pics on various auction house websites and the NRA collection i believe that the barrel has been swapped out at some stage many moons ago as i did not see any of the winchester or springfield marks on the barrel and the calibre stamp is in a different place. this would also account for the nose cap and barrel band being removed if the barrel profile is different as well as the rear sight being on backwards.

    Thanks for you help gentlemen.

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