Gibbs 1903A3

[Leggett71]

Know there is a chain on the Gibbs A4 but looking for info on the Gibbs in general. Picked up a new Gibbs 1903A3 this weekend at a local show. Rifle looks great, Smith Corona Receiver, new Remington bolt, & new RR 2012 barrel. Headspaces good, ME <1.

I am looking for milsurps experts experience on these rifles before I take it to the range. Doing some reading on blogs after I got home and seems there is a vast difference in opinions on the rifle and but there is relly not much written on the Gibbs in general or the RR barrel it sports. Some folks have had great success, others call them junk to the point of writing a long metallurgical narration on their reclaimed drill receivers having a potential to blow up. If you read one blog I found, you would deep six the rifle and say a prayer of thanks for being spared.

I will post some photos after I get home tonight, but just looking for some honest experience. I have always been able to get straight unafraid talk here and am looking for you replies.

Thanks,
Leggett

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[JGaynor]

To the best of my knowledge no reclaimed drill rifles have "blown up" (at least yet). The principal objection on the part of some participants in these forums is that the original producer of A4 reproductions (Gibbs) was, initially, somewhat less than candid as to the source of the rifles. A month or two ago when Creedmore introduced their version they made the same mistake. They were caught almost instantly, apologized and corrected their website.

The questions are IMO : 1. Will the application of heat to the receiver ring fatally damage a rifle?
2. And if so, how much heat?

1. Well maybe. Wish i could be more precise but gunsmiths for years have spot annealed receivers in order to drill screw holes for sights and scope mounts. They have applied heat indirectly or even directly with pencil point torches. Naturally these are skilled guys working very carefully. Now on the other hand when the Camp Swampy Ordnance Depot gets instructions to turn a bunch of obsolete rifles into drill guns will they be using highly motivated, highly skilled and trained welders to do the work? I am inclined to doubt it. One thing is for certain, when the rifles were deactivated no one ever thought they would made into shooters again so there was really no reason to be careful.

2. How much heat will ruin a receiver? Again hard to say. The area where drill rifles are usually tack welded (receiver ring to barrel) is a massive heat sink. So unless the the welder gets carried away listening to the ball game one would think the heat and any damage would be highly localized and minimal. Again how careful do the welders need too be??

Personally I think anyone who holds him or herself out as a builder of rifles using drill rifle carcasses has an obligation to proof test the rifle before selling it to an unsuspecting public. Load up some ammo to 70,000 ft lbs fire one proof round and 5 rounds of standard GI Ball just like the arsenals used to do.

Regards,
Jim

[jwrauch]

I read a copy of a letter posted on the internet ( don't remember where exactly) from the son of Gibbs owner addressing this issue. Supposedly Gibbs has done a fair amt of testing of these receivers w no problems. I picked a barrelled drill rec fr an internet vendor and am in the process of building an 03A3 . The stimulus for this project was a friend giving me a pristine 03A3 barrel. Already had the necessary tools - barrel vise, rec wrench, 3006 finish reamer , & gages. I'll post pics when finished. JR

[Leggett71]

Thanks for your replies.

I am a welding engineer by trade and know what welding can do to a receiver and as you note gunsmiths anneal and they also weld on receivers to make custom rifles. Personnaly I weld on this grade of steel for a living and know it can be done without loosing the strength or toughness of the base material. But as you noted the camp swampy privates that actually did the work probably did not have a lot of concern as the rifles were never going to see action.

One reservation I do have is I have not seen where Gibbs has done any non-destructive tests on the receivers such as a magnetic particle examination for cracks in the spot welded areas before they assembled the new rifle or inspection on any repairs they may have made that would leave a receiver cracked & could cause a receiver to fail on firing. The one blog I found an individual gave a metallurgical sounding condemnation of the receivers but his reasoning was a bit slanted and not accurate.

I would think with today's liability and lawyer sue happy climate they would as you noted Gibbs would inspect & proof test each receiver but again I could not find any threads on any milsurp review providing details. That is why I posted looking for milsurp expert experience or if anyone had other information I had not dug up.

Thanks again
Leggett

[Sarge1998]

Hereis the letter of explanation:

http://www.gibbsrifle.com/files/val_message.pdf

[Leggett71]

Thanks for the Link

[Roadkingtrax]

I will say this Legget, it appears you may actually be more qualified to speak about matters of metallurgy with respect to deactivated drill rifles than anyone else!!!

Liability, and our litigious society may actually benefit the consumer in this modern gun making world. I agree with everything you said.