“T” and “D” come with me to the range. (Several photos)

[No4Mk1(T)]

It’s been a long time since I could make it up to the range for any kind of shooting at all. Work was slow so my boss let me cut out early and on my way home it occurred to me this would be an outstanding day for a bit milsurp fun! I hadn’t had an opportunity to shoot the M1D I acquired in the spring yet and figured a an M1D/No4.Mk1(T) shoot off might be in order.
For the test I used Federal American Eagle and South Korean ball in the M1 and some DA 1944 ball in the No4T.
The No4T has never liked surplus ball but does has a love on for 174gr SMK’s backed by IMR 4064 and will produce consistent groups just above the 1.5in zone. Never having shot the M1D I had no idea what it would like so I figured an all ball comparison was in order.
To cut a fairly long story short after sighting in both rifles produced nice consistent groups in the 3in area at 100yds. The shoot off then broke down to just plane having fun! I sighted in for 200yds and started hitting an 8in. round gong with every shot.
So my conclusion: the No4(T) is defiantly a better sniper rifle. The scope has better optics, more power, better controls and is mounted in a better way. I suspect both will have about the same accuracy capability with issue ammo. The one obvious advantage of the M1D is always the rapid follow-up shot but the brass and enblock being thrown about may not be much of an advantage to a sniper trying to conceal his position (though the sniper having to manipulate the bolt of the No.4 may betray him as well).
Anyway here’s a few photo’s. Hope you enjoy!

Information

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[Stevo]

Very nice. Thanks for the pics and comparison.

[Skippy]

To tell you the truth I would have expected tighter groups than 3" at 100yds, I can do that off the bench with my K98k and open sights.

Absolutly beautiful rifles though, sounds like a great range day.

[No4Mk1(T)]

To tell you the truth I would have expected tighter groups than 3" at 100yds, I can do that off the bench with my K98k and open sights.

Absolutly beautiful rifles though, sounds like a great range day.

Some of that could have been me. It has been a very long time since I was last up to the range. Also none of the ammo used is noted for it accuracy. I’ve had the “T” for many years now and have never found it to like surplus ball at all. In time I’ll work up a load for the “D” and shoot the of against each other using hand loads in both. The other consideration is that in the end I just started having fun and could have perhaps obtained some better groups had I tried a bit harder.

[Boom-Boom]

Some of that could have been me. It has been a very long time since I was last up to the range. Also none of the ammo used is noted for it accuracy. I’ve had the “T” for many years now and have never found it to like surplus ball at all. In time I’ll work up a load for the “D” and shoot the of against each other using hand loads in both. The other consideration is that in the end I just started having fun and could have perhaps obtained some better groups had I tried a bit harder.

Hi No4Mk1(T),

Were you shooting from the shooting/cleaning cradle that is showing with your rifles??

I am also surprised by the results, meaning that I really believe a nice (T) could and should do better than that.
Could be ammo as you pointed out, could be also bench/position shooting related.

Since both rifles were scoped, you may want to look at some shooting with scoped milsurps as well that was done with P14, LBNo4Mk1* and 1903A4 in the same forum.

I have an M1C that I need to get reinstated in civilian life too....

BTW, a very thorough bore cleaning is also a must to get started in shooting accuracy.

Very nice rifles of yours. Congrats.

BB

[bearhunter]

Both my Brit and Indian No4 MkI T rifles are ammo sensetive. They like selected hand loads and Winchester grey box ammo. They also like Greek and SA surplus stuff when I can get it. They both shoot the regular issue fodder into 2 1/2 to 5 inches.

The 1950 LB I have is also ammo sensetive and is my go to rifle to test surplus lots. If it won't shoot it well, nothing will.

If the LB shoots something well, both of the No4 MkI T rifles seem to like it as well.

Badger once mentioned in an email that both his wifes' and his MkI T rifles were not known tack drivers either. I don't really think they needed to be.

We are so spoiled now with "Juenke gauge" quality control used in bullet manufactureing and our regular hunting bullets being more accurate than match grade bullets only 10-15 years ago, that we are compareing grapes to watermelons. The difference is that noticeable.

bearhunter

[Maple_Leaf_Eh]

Good comparison. I found the M1D to be one of the least ergonomic rifles ever issued. Having to hold my head off-centre changed my natural point of aim. I had to concentrate on holding the rifle level.

[jmoore]

You might want to try the M1D w/o the flash hider. Whilst less disruptive to accuracy than the clip-on cone flash hiders they generally don't help things either! As far as No4 T's go, the only one I've seen that was super accurate is a trials rifle converted by Enfield; the rest shoot about like yours (1.5-2 MOA).

Too dang hot here to really enjoy rifle shooting right now!

[Maddogkiller]

Consistent 3 MOA with South Korean M2 is excellent.


Thanks for the pics and report. I've often wondered why a scout scope was not mounted on the D's instead of that offset set up. Maybe they just didn't think of it at the time.

I concur with the suggestion of removing the flash suppressor. They do tend to open up the groups. Put it on for display, but set it aside for range fun.