+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 109

Thread: L42/Enforcer Ammunication

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Really Senior Member rgg_7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:29 PM
    Posts
    496
    Local Date
    01-21-2021
    Local Time
    03:38 PM

    L42/Enforcer Ammunication

    Looking for reloading info for either of these rifles. Where they designed for 168 grain boat tail projectiles (match grade)? Ron

    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Posts
    All Threads
    Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire Family owned and operated since 1962, Simpson LTD is the largest collector firearms store in the Midwest. Our globally sourced inventory represents many eras, with an emphasis on World War II and our favorite firearm, the Luger, of which we typically have 2,500 in stock.  Inventory changes daily with 10,000 firearms ready to ship; along with accessories, militaria, and hundreds of book titles. We also offer appraisals, consignment services ranging from single items to full collections, and we are one of the most reliable and competitively priced import and export services available.  We do not offer parts or gunsmithing, but we have a little bit of everything else. Visit our website for more information and our new technical video series Speaking Luger, and like Simpson Ltd on Facebook for updates, previews, and more. LIMITED TIME OFFER FROM THE AMERICAN GUNSMITHING INSTITUTE: Get Immediate Online Access To AGI's NEW Armorer's Course for Glock Pistols, Covering Every Generation of Glocks, Including the Latest Model 42/43 and Double Stack Pistols for ONLY $7.00! Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses. Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire
     

  3. #2
    Advisory Panel Thunderbox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 11:57 AM
    Posts
    1,138
    Local Date
    01-21-2021
    Local Time
    08:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by rgg_7 View Post
    Looking for reloading info for either of these rifles. Where they designed for 168 grain boat tail projectiles (match grade)? Ron
    No, the barrels were designed and optimised for 144gn NATO ball.

    In practice, on the range, most shooters seem to find that there is usually no performance advantage of using 155-170gn target ammo in 7.62mm Enfields (or those using the Enfield or PH barrel), even at 600-1000 where there should be a theoretical performance improvement. UKicon shooters tend to stick to 144gn military surplus ammo, given the high price of 155gn civilian match ammo.

  4. The Following 5 Members Say Thank You to Thunderbox For This Useful Post:


  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #3
    Contributing Member waco16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 07:11 PM
    Location
    South West, UK
    Posts
    281
    Local Date
    01-21-2021
    Local Time
    08:38 PM
    I've tried quite a few bullet weights/powder combinations through my L42 and found that 42 grains of Reloader 15 behind 168 grain Sierra Matck Kings in RWS brass works the best. Once fired I keep the brass to the rifle and neck size only.
    I'm up to 8 reloads with no sigh of case failure.

    For all you UKicon people on the forum - the NRA shop at Bisley sell once fires RWS brass for £10/100 and I have found it to be excellent and when you compare it to around £50 - £60/100 cpmared to Lapua brass.
    If looking for real accuracy relaoding is the way to go.
    With the best will in the world by doing this you'll have more control over the finished article than a factory that is turning out millions of military rounds in a week.

  7. Thank You to waco16 For This Useful Post:


  8. #4
    Advisory Panel

    jmoore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    01-12-2021 @ 05:41 AM
    Location
    US of A
    Posts
    7,066
    Local Date
    01-21-2021
    Local Time
    03:38 PM
    I've found most available surplus ammo won't do near as well as 150-155gr SMKs or 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tipped ammo, new or reloaded. But there's precious little military ball ammo from the UKicon left in the US. The best in my stash dates from 1988-90, but I only have 2-300 rounds left of that vintage, maybe, so it gets saved for special occasions.

  9. #5
    Member Enfield Enforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Last On
    01-15-2021 @ 02:34 PM
    Location
    Schweiz
    Posts
    68
    Local Date
    01-21-2021
    Local Time
    08:38 PM
    Follow Enfield Enforcer On Twitter Add Enfield Enforcer on Facebook Add Enfield Enforcer on MySpace

    Enfield Enforcer-Ammo .308 Win. with Bullets with 178-190 grs weight

    Hello,

    has anybody practical experience with the Enforcer and such ammo ? For example Hornady 178 grs BTHP-Match, 185 grs D46 Lapua Match, 185 grs Lapua Scenar, 190 gr Norma Match, 190 grs RWS/Ruag Match ?

    I would like to test my Enforcer at some 400-800 Meter-Distances. And I need therefore heavy loads to resist crosswind.

    Thanks !

    Greetings from a
    windy Switzerlandicon

    Enfield Enforcer
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Enfield Enforcer V..jpg‎
Views:	426
Size:	73.5 KB
ID:	98638   Click image for larger version

Name:	Enfield Enforcer IV..jpg‎
Views:	417
Size:	245.5 KB
ID:	98639   Click image for larger version

Name:	Norma Diamond Line .308 Win. Match 190 grs.gif‎
Views:	407
Size:	26.2 KB
ID:	98640   Click image for larger version

Name:	.308 Win. RWS Target Elte 190 grs Match.jpg‎
Views:	402
Size:	74.8 KB
ID:	98641   Click image for larger version

Name:	.308 Win. 185 grs Lapua D 46 Match..jpg‎
Views:	406
Size:	162.9 KB
ID:	98642  
    Last edited by Enfield Enforcer; 02-01-2019 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Darstellungsfehler

  10. #6
    Really Senior Member Sunray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    12-12-2020 @ 03:34 PM
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    1,023
    Local Date
    01-21-2021
    Local Time
    03:38 PM
    "...144gn NATO ball..." 147 grains, but it's moot since they're not easy to come by. Military ball ammo isn't loaded for great accuracy by anybody anyway.
    Hornady makes a 155 grain Match and ELD Match bullet. Sierra makes a 150 grain Match King too.
    For the 600 plus yards, use a 168 to 600 and a 175/178 past there. The 185's and 190's work best out of a .300 Win Mag. To 1,000 yards.
    Spelling and Grammar count!

  11. #7
    Really Senior Member Bindi2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 02:04 PM
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    1,308
    Local Date
    01-22-2021
    Local Time
    04:38 AM
    The L42 action is a 303 proofed action that was upgraded proofed for the NATO 7.62 round using a 144gn projectile. This put the action at the upper limits of its strength.
    Loading beyond 144gn is a disaster about to happen the heavier you go the sooner it will happen not good for a collector grade rifle.
    I have a front locking target rifle that was built and proofed around the 144gn NATO. Using 175gn match loads the three BOLT lugs CRACKED. It has been repaired and is now only fed 150gn mild loads.
    YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

  12. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to Bindi2 For This Useful Post:


  13. #8
    Member scharfschutzen63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    01-17-2021 @ 12:36 PM
    Posts
    58
    Local Date
    01-21-2021
    Local Time
    03:38 PM
    If I understand correctly, proof firing Is based on pressure and not bullet weight. I believe a high power rifle cartridge proof round develops 150% of the pressure of SAAMI maximum. The purpose of proof firing is to prove the action can safely handle standard ammunition.

  14. Thank You to scharfschutzen63 For This Useful Post:

    cml

  15. #9
    Really Senior Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 03:34 AM
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    2,017
    Local Date
    01-21-2021
    Local Time
    03:38 PM
    If the rifle is THROATED for the lighter NATO (or thereabouts) bullet, seated to "NATO" length, you do not have much "wriggle-room".

    There is no point for several reasons.

    1. You cannot SAFELY get enough propellant into the case, particularly heavy-walled "Mil Spec" cases, to drive a 150(ish) gn bullet fast enough to still be supersonic at 1000m. .30-06? .30-.284? Yes 7.62 NATO? NO!.

    2. Adding barrel length has its limits as well. ALL of the propellant in a NATO round is consumed by the time the bullet has traveled about 24 to 26 inches (610 -635mm) up the tube. After that it is "coasting and losing velocity. There is a current fad for 30 inch .308 barrels. The greater the length for a given profile, the more like a piece of wet spaghetti it will behave. Thus, fatter (sometimes creatively fluted), greater weight and lots of bipods on the line these days, Wheels will be the next requirement / fashion. The original barrel on my old Omark 44 looks positively anorexic by comparison to some.

    3. Slinkier bullets will help velocity and accuracy retention, up to a point. Have a look at the Australianicon-made BJD "HBC" bullet. 155gns, like the classic SMK Palma, but it has a SECANT ogive and a very small bearing surface. GREAT bullet, but very sensitive to less-than-perfect loading dies and chambers. Ideal throat for the HBCs is quite short in comparison to that for the tangent-ogive SMK. (Because of the secant ogive, quite a few K-31 shooters use these in the short-throated 7.5 Swissicon chambers on those later rifles. K-11 s have LONG throats to be able to use older ammo styles, like the GP96, and to allow a bit of freebore to keep pressures down.

    4. If you are just using a dedicated, single-shot target rifle, seating options are fairly open. IF you are running from a magazine, like the L-42, (lucky bugger), the loaded ammo MUST fit and feed from the "issue" box magazine.

  16. #10
    Really Senior Member Frederick303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last On
    07-28-2020 @ 10:41 PM
    Location
    Pipersville PA US
    Posts
    739
    Local Date
    01-21-2021
    Local Time
    04:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by scharfschutzen63 View Post
    If I understand correctly, proof firing Is based on pressure and not bullet weight. I believe a high power rifle cartridge proof round develops 150% of the pressure of SAAMI maximum. The purpose of proof firing is to prove the action can safely handle standard ammunition.
    What you have missed is the 144 gr NATO ball cartridge has a short driving band, and the L39/L42 hammer forged Enfield barrels have a very tight bore, on the order of a .296 to .297 , with a groove diameter of .3065 to .3070. On the L1A2 ball with its average bullet diameter of .3075, that means acceptable pressure. They were proofed to take that cartridge and I assume the Canadianicon C21, Australianicon F4, etc.

    Now take a nice hot LR cartridge with a .3082 diameter 175 to 185 gr bullet, (designed for a true .308 bore) a longer effective driving band and the additional pressure required to swage the projectile down to .306? and you are looking at possibly excessive pressure.

    On top of this the trend in recent years has been toward hot long range loads that use the 175 to 185 Gr bullets in a 7.62 NATO case, as the only way to get a good 1000 yard velocity out of them is to load on the hot side. Most chaps using this are using rifles designed for these loads, either AR10s, or 4 lug target actions. Many of the primers look noticeably flat when ejected on a hot day. On a Barnard, Musgrave or Paramount., OK.........….On a L81 or L39 or envoy or L42...no....the action will eventually fail, most likely the first time it is a wee bit misty.

    For example M118LR is a pretty darned hot and is expected to be fired out of a front locking action, with a true NATO throat. The L39A1 and L42A1 chambers, if I recall have a headspace slightly shorter than the American NATO chamber print, and might have a smaller diameter neck, I do not recall at the moment. In any case it is a hot load, depended on the year and powder used.

    The warning is worth considering, but if not there is always a market for your resultant spares and you get to keep the pranged action.

    Finally you do not need it.

    The interesting thing about these Envoys/L39/L42 rifles is how well they shoot decent lots of green and black sport 7.62 NATO, or (so I am told) better lots of Germanicon DM 41 or Austrian Patronen 58 cartridges. The Austrians used the Patronen 58 in their SSG 69 to good effect out to 700 M, or so I am told. Both are on the market now in the US of A. A lot of people assume that the last set of 7.62 innovations were game changers, they were not. The old arms with the ammunition they were designed for are capable of fine performance, unless you are doing some serious competition, where the small advantages in velocity consistency, bullet quality will have a cumulative effect. The fun of shooting these old war horses is getting the best performance out of them in the period correct method.

  17. Thank You to Frederick303 For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Enforcer #415, where are you?
    By Cold_Zero in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-07-2012, 05:30 AM
  2. Anyone after a Enforcer in the UK?
    By Brit plumber in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-21-2012, 12:01 PM
  3. Enforcer #175
    By superbee in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-10-2012, 07:25 PM
  4. Enforcer 422
    By bigduke6 in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 03-11-2012, 03:33 PM
  5. UK Enforcer
    By Alan de Enfield in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-10-2009, 07:12 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts