Screw head in top middle of Type 38 chamber unusual?

[viejorifle]

Found a sporterized Type 38 for sale that has what appears to be a screw head in the middle of the lettering on the top of the chamber area where the Model No is inscribed in Japanese characters. Located where the "eight" character appears. Don't know if it penetrates into the chamber.

Was this a known modification? and why would they do that?

Would this preclude buying it in your opinion?

Appreciate any input from wiser heads.

Thanks, Ray

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[viejorifle]

Posted a picture in Photo Gallery, sorry don't know how to imbed it here.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Found a sporterized Type 38 for sale that has what appears to be a screw head in the middle of the lettering on the top of the chamber area where the Model No is inscribed in Japanese characters. Located where the "eight" character appears. Don't know if it penetrates into the chamber.

Was this a known modification? and why would they do that?

Would this preclude buying it in your opinion?

Appreciate any input from wiser heads.

Thanks, Ray

"Would this preclude buying it in your opinion?" Yes. There was an interesting thread on the Lee-Enfield forum about a contributor who found out (too late) that the chamber on his rifle had been drilled into for a pin to deactivate it. At the worst, this is the case with the present rifle. At best, it is a leftover from a scope fitting, and I would forget the rifle unless able to remove the threaded plug and check the depth of the hole. Over here, a hole that penetrates the chamber invalidates the proof, and even if you live in a country where this does not apply, it is a sound reason to reject an unsound rifle.

[viejorifle]

Patrick:

Thanks for your input. Perhaps it is a remnant from a scope attachment point. I'll ask the seller to verify that the hole does not penetrate. Even if it is not through, I'm sure it is weaker and potentially unsound.

I'm new to firearms, and I'm wondering if you can explain "invalidates the proof".

Ray

[Patrick Chadwick]

I'm new to firearms, and I'm wondering if you can explain "invalidates the proof".

In Germany, for instance, proofing of firearms is mandatory. Alterations (such as rechambering) to pressure-bearing items such as the barrel, bolt or action body (system) render the proof invalid. The question is: what constitutes an alteration? Polishing or rebluing - hardly. But heating the bolt to red heat, for instance, in order to bend down the bolt handle for a sporter, thus possibly affecting the hardness in the lug area - that could be viewed as such an alteration. And drilling a hole in the chamber does, of course, reduce the bursting strength at that point.

So the rule-of-thumb, as far as I can ascertain, is that small holes, such as a couple of 6x32 for scope block mounting, might be OK, but any hole that goes right through into the chamber is held to have weakened the chamber sufficiently that the proof is regarded as invalid. I realize that you live in a country where proof is not mandatory, but I would personally avoid buying a firearm that had what could be a fatal weakness.

[viejorifle]

Patrick:

Thanks for a very lucid explanation about proof, agree its prudent to avoid weakened barrels/chambers.

I've posted a second photo in my photo gallery. I have not actually handled a Type 38 receiver and barrel assembly so I cannot tell for sure what the photo depicts. I suspect it is a picture of the area behind the chamber and shows where the bolt head goes into battery. There are vent holes above the bolt head I am guessing.

If anyone can confirm/disconfirm my hunch I'd appreciate it.

Ray

[seabot2]

The spot where the "hachi (8)" is located is not the chamber, but the locking lug area. Probably a Bubba's doing. Since the rifle is already sporterized, it still could be completed as such. Hopefully the hole is not too way off for a good scope mounting.

[viejorifle]

seabot:

Thanks for explicating the anatomy of the receiver/barrel. I'm learning quite a bit about Arisakas and rifles in general. I've read that this action is very robust, and waiting for the seller to confirm that its in shootable condition before deciding to purchase.

Ray

[Aragorn243]

It is said that the Arisaka has the strongest action of all military surplus rifles. This runs counter to the general belief that they are the weakest. This belief probably came from the firing or attempted firing of training rifles which were never designed to be fired. Japan seems to be the only nation that made rifles that "look" like real rifles that were made simply for drill purposes.

The screw in question looks to be outside the chamber area and should not have any effect on strength. It did destroy it's collector value.

[viejorifle]

Aragorn243, thanks for your input. As I learn more about the history of these old weapons its sad to see what gets done to them.

Ray