Newbie with "1920 Erfurt 1912" question and pictures.

[rrambo]

Hello everybody! Another humble newbie here, looking for info. The Lee Enfield section has been welcoming and helpful so I expect more of the same as I branch out to Mauser and Krag. Not sure of the protocol for posting so you may see the same post elsewhere if it turns out that I should move it.

To business: I have a Mauser 98 marked as follows (will also provide pictures). I’ve tried to figure out the markings but I’m just (enthusiastically) beginning to learn and could use some help. As compared to Enfields, the Mauser 98 identification seems quite a bit harder to figure out. You guys must be smarter than Enfield guys. 

Forgive me for any misused terms and unfamiliarity with the importance of various markings, I hope to be much smarter shortly. Also, please give me a break because this is currently my only dirty firearm but I didn’t want to clean it until I find out more about what to do.

Anyway, the left side of the receiver is stamped with Kar 98 and the top of the receiver has four items stacked toward the butt end behind the 7.9: 1920 / a crown / Erfurt / 1912. I've been told elsewhere that NO Erfurt 1912’s exist, but that’s what I have.

Serial numbers (#9699) match on the receiver assembly ( both top and bottom), barrel, stock, and handguard. The bolt doesn’t seem to have a number. There is a 99 on the front sight guard and 96 on the magazine follower and on the bottom magazine cover. The top edge of the buttplate has S.P. over D and the rear of the butt plate has 4. over 60.

Very sadly, this weapon was duffle cut by my WW2-vet uncle and the cut pieces are lost. I seem to be missing the bayonet mount assembly, the front portions of the stock/hand guard, the sling, and the movable part of the rear sight. I hope it's not ruined for restoration.

I’m not lazy at all, but I’m having trouble getting traction on this particular ID problem. Can anyone refer me to resources or better, give me some clue on this weapon so that I have the keys to educate myself about it? Also, any thoughts about correcting the butchery would be welcome (but I’m also reading previous posts on that topic.)

Here are the photos, and thanks a lot!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[mike webb]

I am no Mauser authority but I can give you a little info on your rifle. It is a K98a, that is a short version of the Gewhr98 service rifle. They are called 98AZ model by some, I don't know the difference but basically both are short rifles on a small ring action. The rifle was made in 1912 at Erfurt Arsenal so obviously there were Erfurt 1912 rifles. The 1920 date was applied in that year showing that the rifle was used to equip the 100,000 man army of the Weimar Republic and as such it was an authorized military weapon. All military arms not possessing the 1920 stamp were considered contraband in civilian hands. These are often called double date K98 rifles. Many were refurbished in Poland to Polish standards and some were even refurbished in Nazi Germany to resemble a K98k at a glance. Restoration is tough as handguards and bayonet lugs and stacking swivels are very hard to find now. I would hang onto it and watch Ebay and Gunbroker for parts, they come up once in a while, you may get lucky.

[Badger]

Here's an MKL entry that will help ...

Milsurps Knowledge Library - 1913/1920 (Double Dated) Kar98a Carbine

Regards,
Doug

[rrambo]

thanks for that info. I'd found the info about Versailles Convention arms and the 1920 date and such, late last night. I am disappointed to hear about the difficulty with restoration.

I need to figure out if the sight and bayonet mount have serial numbers, if not I might be able to buy a junker with correct parts to use on this one. I also gave the bolt a closer look and found that it actually does have a serial number, hard to see but probably not a match. anyway, as I kinda figured, the wood would be the problem since the matching-numbered parts have been cut.

So, the decision is whether to clean up this "sporterizing" hack job and keep it as-is with original numbers on the wood, or locate and install an authentic but non-matching stock. I'm inclined to do the former since that's how uncle Charlie had it, but I have no need for another shooter. If you or anyone has any thoughts about what's best in a situation like this I'd like to hear them.

regardless of which approach I take, I'm going to continue to identify the proof marks and what-have-you as best I can, this is pretty interesting stuff. I'm doing the same thing with a Krag and 2 Lee Enfields - one of which is turning out to be a very nice example of a pretty rare rifle.

anyway, thanks again for the info.

[rrambo]

I found some of this info elsewhere, slight discrepancies but that seems par for the course with century-old weaponry. I know that my beat up and cut up Erfurt 1912 has no real market value but it's valuable to me and I'm having fun trying to solve all the puzzles. I have just started digging for proof marks and other stamps. thanks for the help!

[Calif-Steve]

Try Ebay for Kar98a parts. Watch out as Gew98 or Kar98k parts will not run. It is a project worthy or your efforts. Good luck.