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Thread: Pre dip black parkerizing post dip black dye parkerizing.

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    Senior Member Topfmine's Avatar
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    Pre dip black parkerizing post dip black dye parkerizing.

    I have tried hot dip black oxide in the past on guns and bayonets, worked ok but was very temperamental and dangerous. I have also seen recent black oxide methods that seem to give a brownish purple finish, no where near a black finish of black oxide, have they changed the formula. My favourite finishing is parkerizing and it would be great if I could produce this in black, the manganese is not black enough. I was reading an old milsurps post where it showed a wartime note from one one of the small arms factories stating that the parkerizing finish was not dark enough and they recommend using a black dye for a black finish. Anyone know what this process was and the type of dye used. Somebody mentioned that they used boot polish but I am sure this would not be durable if solvents were used to degrease the gun at a later stage. I also saw that Brownels and Midway use a pre black park dip, has anyone used this and could I get this in the UKicon. It's a shame the chemical formula for parkerizing couldn't be changed to produce a black.

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    Senior Member no4mk1t's Avatar
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    One method is go to an artists supply store and buy a tube of grease paint. Do not buy acrylic paint. It has to be the old fashioned grease paint.
    Dissolve a small quantity of the paint in some light machine oil like 3-in-1 oil.
    While the part is still hot from the parkerizing bath, submerge or quickly brush on the tinted oil. The part has to be hot.
    Experiment with a small part to get the results you're looking for.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    We just added steel wool to the bath and while it consumes the steel wool, it turns the park black.
    Regards, Jim

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    Contributing Member WarPig1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    steel wool
    Degreased or does it matter?

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    We never found it mattered. It got consumed in short time. You could boil it if it bothered you...we didn't. We also used 0000 fine...
    Regards, Jim

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    Senior Member Topfmine's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    I usually use steel wool for my manganese park mix, I was wondering if anyone has tried using iron powder as opposed to steel wool. I believe iron phosphate (parkerizing) gives a blacker finish, so I thought an iron content would be darker.

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    Really Senior Member Brit plumber's Avatar
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    I've never tried it but Iron filings are one method I've read about, I also have read that if the item is dropped into engine oil (Possibly well used with carbon deposits) sooner rather than later then a darker appearance is obtained. The Americans tend to like a grey with a green tinge for their US weapons and like to add cosmolineicon to the finished product.

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    Contributing Member Vincent's Avatar
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    Pre Dip

    If it’s NOT removed before the parts go in the park tank, what you are calling “pre dip” is probably an activation solution containing titanium salts. It’s commonly used here in industrial phosphating of oilfield parts.

    Iron Phosphate

    Manganese and zinc phosphate coatings are much more rust resistant than iron phosphate. It’s not really suitable for this application, oil dip or spray. It is good for items that will be painted.

    The acid and metal reaction is going to produce some iron phosphate, but you want as little as possible. What you’re looking for here is a solid manganese or zinc coating.

    Porosity

    The phosphate coating is porous, like a sponge, and soaks up oil, paint, etc.

    It’s the oil or other material that provides the corrosion resistance.

    With manganese and zinc coatings the oil also acts as a lubricant.

    Post dip black dye

    Instead of using a dye, you can use “Cold black oxide.” It is not really an iron oxide coating. It’s a copper selenium deposit.

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    Senior Member Topfmine's Avatar
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    Anyone know what chemical makeup is in the Brownells pre dip black parkerizing, can't get it here in the UKicon.

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    Contributing Member Vincent's Avatar
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    I don't know what's all in Brownells surface activation solution.

    Look for something containing titanium salt or salts, or Jernstedt salts. It's probably potassium titanium fluoride (dipotassium hexafluorotitanate). It might also be listed as a grain refiner.


    [edit]

    Here you go. They ship to the UK. Look for Great Britainicon in the drop down when you checkout.

    Manufacturer of DuraCoat Firearm Finishes: Black Dip Parkerizing Pre-Treatment
    Last edited by Vincent; 03-13-2015 at 05:20 PM.

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