Off topic 1911 but British Issue

[Simon P]

Its a bit off subject but may be of interest to Collectors of British Issued Weapons, Ithaca 1911 that I got the chance to view this morning. British Government Disposal marks dated 1952.

Information

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[browningautorifle]

Lend lease I expect? Nice piece though.

[Beerhunter]

"British Government Disposal marks"?

[Peter Laidler]

Same thoughts as Beery here so sorry to be a pessimist................ Engraved disposal marks! If they engraved every weapon they disposed of there'd still be a queue waiting to be done. Never seen it before or heard of marks like that BUT, having said that, I'nve never been a trader or dealer either. Maybe there's another so marked out there.

[browningautorifle]

Engraved disposal marks!

Are you guys sure those are engraved marks?

[Lance]

Very common in the US. I have two, a Ithaca and a Remington, still need to add a Colt but I have one with uncommon Canadian markings so the desire is not great to drop the coin. Plus the .455 WWI Colt. Per the records Britain never received lend lease US&S 1911A1's, but I am still hoping to find one!

[mrclark303]

Interesting piece, I would suppose these marks were made by the US importer, the only offical British disposal markings that I am aware, are the >< SS "Sold out of Service" divergent arrows, but was this practice carried on to this date??

[Beerhunter]

Like Peter I have never heard of us doing that. Even the Sold Out of Service mark appears to have been quietly dropped post-wwII. I reckon the "released .... etc" was applied by a US importer.

I see that the OP's picture also has a pre-1954 Birmingham View Proof mark.

The second picture of the four posted later, contains two British civilian Proof marks. "Not English Make" and the Birmingham Proof House crossed sceptres Date Code mark. Noting to do with the Government.

The third picture clearly shows a Canadian Government ownership mark - Broad Arrow inside a letter "C".

An the final picture looks like it has more Birmingham Proof marks. It ought to have some British Acceptance marks as well, being one of the .455 M1911s (all the rest are M1911A1s) bought by the British Government during the Great War. It MAY also have an opposed Broad Arrows Sold Out of Service mark.

[Peter Laidler]

The left hand original pic looks like it could be stamped but not quite square - or engraved while not horizontal and the cutter/scratchy pen doesn't cut/mark the lower part of the letters. But they could be both although stamping usually leaves a slightly raised edge due to the (slightly) displaced metal.

But I don't ever recall seeing this in the little handbook of markings. Wish I'd taken the grubby oil stained one in the in-inspectors bay!

[Beerhunter]

It's just struck me. The British Government would not mark stuff like this "British Government". In those days they would have used WD (War Department) or AM (Air Ministry) for example or even MoS (Ministry of Supply). That is to say a Department of State rather than the "Government" as such.

We didn't even have a proper Ministry of Defence covering the three services until the 1960s. (Yes I know that Churchill called himself the Minster of Defence during the Second World War but there was no Ministry as such. MD1 does NOT count! After WWII until, the 1960s, although they nominally reported to the MoD, the three services were essentially independent.)