Carbine Club

[JOHN42768]

Bittersweet news today with the arrival of Newsletter #384. One of the best info sources on the M1 Carbine is making some changes. Starting Jan.1,2016 Members will participate in an online only format. MIlsurps comes as a highly recommended forum. Many thanks to the staff of volunteers who contributed time and talent over the many years producing a first class publication recording and searching out the various details in the M1 Carbines lifeline. John

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Hercules Powder]

End of an era -Final Issue- “Membership in the traditional Carbine Club ends with this issue.”

That makes me sad and wonder where collecting is going in general. Not just the Carbines but everything old that some of us hold near and dear. It maybe the beginning to new meaning for the old saying One man’s treasure is another man’s junk. I’m in my late 60’s and when I look at most collectors the majority are my age or older, whether it’s guns, cars or whatever.

The new norm is when you see a gray haired old guy shuffle to the firing line with an old army rifle in one hand and a cane in the other or trying to get out of his street rod that would have only been driven by a teenager a few years ago.

History at your fingertips is nothing like holding something in your hands and feeling the history. John

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

This has been in the wind for a while. But it was asked to wait for the newsletter announcement.

As with many others, I've been a CC member for three decades. Very sad to see to come to an end. But I understand the reasons. The Carbine Club group and participating members have done an outstanding job for the last 39 years. Nothing but praise for all their efforts. Age and wanting to retire, all the years of work, less member participation for articles, many factors went to the beginning of the end.

Others have taken up the challenge to try and continue it in another form, online. Participation in that will help it continue hopefully for at least another 39 years.

[DaveHH]

I've been a member for around eight years and have always been impressed with the quality of the publication. Those guys worked a lot to keep this thing going. Every once in awhile you got a really wonderful article like Mr. Powers work, Chris Albright's Inland issues or Brian Quick's Standard Products article. But you could see that at some point there was nothing more coming down the pipe. How much was left to discover? It also was pretty clear to me that most of the new people entering the hobby of carbines were not interested in the history of the gun. They just wanted to know what slide was correct for an early Rock Ola. The puzzle killed it. These guys were much more interested in swapping out the parts than why it was made, who made it and what their particular gun was. The new guys would start out saying how much they loved their new carbine, how they weren't going to change a thing and a week later were asking where they could buy a correct stock. It was predictable that in the end, the part swappers, the fake parts and the cheaters would get the best of the real collectors. My thanks goes out to the CC staff, they were great.

[CINDERS]

HC has got it right we the older who value collecting milsurps and appreciate the efforts to give us our freedom hold dear these things that are not that accurate or tack drivers but a piece of history, I enjoy getting my 1916 Lithgow out and just treasure it but for us the old dodgers (I am still a chicken at 58) what will the future hold I know not. But probably along the lines of "Gosh you have an I- Phone 3 in your collection I only have a I-phone 75" whilst the rest of us fade away into obscurity and Bill Gates maybe the the savior of the modern world in their eyes and not the GI's and Commonwealth service men/women that liberated the world in 1918 - 1945. I really miss riding in my Dads straight eight Buick's, our Pontiac Luerentian and Chevy Impala pillarless where you needed a hard wired phone to talk to your passengers the cars were that big....!

[kar66]

Having been a member since the mid/80s it was almost like a death in the family. I remember how I use to look forward to seeing each new issue come in the mail. I couldn't wait to see what new information it contained. Somehow things just won't feel right without the newsletter.

[new2brass]

Hercules, I was just discussing that with my brother. Both into cars and bikes. How heads turn but less and less car and bike shows we deem worthy. With that have to tie it into What Dave says. I had a 1938 Plymouth P6 2 door sedan. paint was pealing and cracked. interior ripped up, fender welting falling apart. I would put it in shows right next to similar cars with perfect paint and interiors. At the end of the day I would bring home the trophy to the dismay of others. you see the car was all original as left the factory an the Plymouth owners group gives more points for original condition than restored. Just the same we had old mopars that were wrecks that had bondo and repainted. we would clean them up, swap engines, seek out factory options that the car never had and enjoyed our cars. When it was time to sell the "hot rods" we had a large buyer base, and though rarely recouped our costs we had fun with them and that was our hobby. When I sold the Plymouth I realized no one cared the points value of the car. I wound up almost giving it away to someone who was going to hot rod it. I pulled the crank hole cover off and sent it on its way. It probably has more value than what I got for the rest of the car.
There are carbine collectors that appreciate it for what it is an the history. Some enjoy it as a shooter. Some seek out all correct as left the factory. Many however enjoy getting it "restored" or close to factory.
Looking back at car collecting you have to evaluate what you have and deem whether or not it is restorable or a base for a hot rod. With carbines the same is true.
From the factory it was made a certain way, parts in a certain order. this gives it history. Once it goes through a rebuild it is just a accumulation of parts. I really do not see much in the way of history random marked parts being assembled. there is no way to document it. Yes there are exceptions niches such as white bag, Dmc, Bavarian returns as well as some other returns where the country did not separate parts. and others for sure.
For the rest, many enjoy having matching parts, this is there hobby. Is it any different than looking for that Luger take down that has the correct numbers or o matching magazine for it? I would argue this is why our carbines keep going up in value than many other war relics. Further would go out on a limb saying it kept the club going.
The flip is the Fakers and Prostitutes (FAPs) who dishonestly pass off stuff.

This brings me back to the topic at hand: the Carbine Club and its last "Printed" issue. the club is not over. it is just changing format. Now I and others would like to keep the club "closed" to the general public to keep the FAPs at bay, while having an open forum to educate the beginner to intermediates on the carbine. This with the hopes to keep those correct carbine correct, while getting better reporting and spotters reports. Then I for one would like a closed group for more advanced club stuff.
Any input for the future of the club welcomed here in this thread, email an pms also welcome. And as first page stated, volunteers and talent.

[tenOC]

Correcting rifles can't be blamed for the disinterest in CCNLs if correcting rifles is so popular. Paper back-issues would be more and more popular as people strive to learn how to recreate/restore. And the CC doesn't have a stance against changing parts. It has one against misrepresentation.

New2brass, there's a quite a difference in the survivor car you're describing and the restored car next to it. So it really isn't what was said much earlier in the thread. A survivor car is just like a survivor Carbine---just as it left the factory originally as you said, and 'original' only comes once. A restored car is just like a restored Carbine...a re-creation of the original. Neither is 'wrong' but the true survivor gets the glory over even the arsenal rebuild mix-master that has a better established history. But none of the collectors here is placing higher prices on that provable history for those. Why should the survivor get it when the re-arsenal doesn't? Not talking about restored rifles.

To everyone, Really, why do people value the survivor over the arsenal rebuilds? The arsenal rebuild has an established military history above the survivor when the survivor might very well be a theft that never left the town from where it was stolen.

And it's the old timers, long time buyers and "serious" collectors who set the VALUE of these and they say the rifles with longer proven military history (rifles gone through a rebuild program) don't command the higher price. It's originality alone that grabs the top demand/prices. And the earlier it is, the greater the demand. Most people reading understand that restoring is going to be a popular endeavor. And the reason is because serious old time collectors don't set a higher value for the arsenal rebuilds and their history.

Now the reason new people make a statement to honor their new passion and love it the way it is, is because (1) they don't yet have an education on what they have, and (2) there are stodgy personalities who take advantage of them in public forum threads pressuring them (and often trying to dictate) what the hobby is going to be for the newbys before they even know what they have. IOWs they pressure the newby into confirming he'll cherish the thing as it is before he even understands. New guys always say the same thing in order to gain acceptance and to share excitement of their find. Some people take advantage of that on forums.

I don't own the back issues, or even a single issue. Seems I possibly joined for a partial year, but can't be sure. Since winning an IP and M1A1 from the CMP auction was my primary focus, the Garand Club was easier to join for member privileges, while the Carbine has been my actual passion. Around 125 Carbines have come through my possession and only a few originals/near originals, because originals aren't what drives my passion. About 25 have been imports including many BLUE SKY. The CMPs I've picked up remain just as they are received when sold to the next guy/girl. If I get a Winchester with a checkered stock, I'm replacing it. If it has an adjustable sight and only flip staking, it's getting a Square S.

[Fungun12]

I've only been collecting for a few years, but it has been a very interesting and educational experience. The Carbine Club brought me to a new level of collecting. I now have many carbines and still looking. The books I've acquired are great, but the Club letters put the final stamp of approval on a question for me. I don't know what the future of collecting will bring so I will enjoy it for as long as I can. As far as the information being put on the Web instead of paper, I think it will be just as good, maybe better. These sights and forums are full of information and the addition of the Club on the net will just make it all better. THANKS FOR THE HARD WORK TO ALL THE PEOPLE THAT TOOK A PART IN THIS GREAT CLUB.

[Sleeplessnashadow]

Undergoing a reorganization and reconstruction. Which will take a little time. Things will become available a few at a time in the months to come.

There will be a general announcement on USCarbineCal30.com on or about 01 Jan 2016, accessible via a new menu item entitled "The Club".

Jim