Research and busting the myth.

[muffett.2008]

Lousey pommie day here today, perpetual mizzle and bleeding cool for the middle of summer.

So here I am stuck inside punching computer keys and catching up on research.

Following leads gleaned from sources that are offshoots to the main theme can sometimes lead to very interesting items, today is one of those times.

F.E Hart has been a bit elusive, so today was a more concerted effort, Birth records, Service records, the full monte. His postings and travels certainly are an enlightenment, but his time at the School of Musketry just prior to his appointment to the Lithgow Inspectorate gives a different insite to the man.

In the short period from 1912 to 1916, he managed to write three seperate volumes on Service Training, revise and compile Training manuals and excel in his position of Small Arms Instructor.

But thats not the good bit..........he made a mockery of Snoxalls record for the mad minute.

Now we know that Snoxall pumped out 38 rounds with a good hit ratio.

In 1914, Hart pumped out 41 rounds with 38 hits
Attachment 69505

He bettered that in 1915,
Attachment 69506 - Attachment 69507

.........and again in a demonstration in Melbourne in 1916
Attachment 69508

So off the shoulder and finally from a rest, probably would have the semi auto's of the 40's working hard.

Information

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[Richard Hare]

Thanks for that, Muffett!

Even off a rest in the last test, he still had to load it. Must have been quite a blur to watch!
The other rates with a high proportion of hits is mind -boggling.

Thanks again.
Richard.

[Thunderbox]

Its nice to see the actual shoot conditions in print for the first time.


41 shots in 55 seconds, with 38 hits on a 4ft square target at 300 yards. Charger loading.


I wonder if this was done with a rifle rest, as with the other practices? That would make sense, as i doubt its possible to keep rounds on target from an unsupported rifle at that rate of fire (given that it includes charger loading as well).

[muffett.2008]

Off the shoulder in the first tests, this was serious business beating the poms, it's what us Ozzies do best.
Attachment 69553
A double effort in Melbourne
Attachment 69552
.........and he wasn't alone...1919
Attachment 69551

[Peter Laidler]

They were taught by the poms Muffer!

[muffett.2008]

Yeah Pete, Hart did a course at Hythe in 1912, probably taught by Snoxall.
You lot taught us how to play cricket to.

[bigduke6]

You lot taught us how to play cricket to.

And Rugby, but the Kiwi's seem to have the upper hand....

[Peter Laidler]

Re your at thread 4 muffer. I didn't know that! I was just being a bit flippant with my caustic pommy humour. I have to keep reminding my son who's now on the East coast to remember that his pommy humour, learned from dad, isn't quite the same as Aussie humour! But he's learning....... Told him to have a few beers when/if he stops at Enoggera and Canungra!

[Richard Hare]

Muffett,
Quote;
"Off the shoulder in the first tests, this was serious business beating the poms, it's what us Ozzies do best."

My great Uncle worked on a sheep station near Perth. Hellish competitive he was, (in then1920's)
They used to say to him, "You aren't a Pommy!" wouldn't believe he was one! :-)
Started out as a wheat lumper and went from there.
Crack shot on bouncing 'roos as well.
OT, but .......... :-)

[Sentryduty]

This is an astounding feat!

I know the Lee-Enfields are quick, but the skill and practice involved in running the rifle to that speed is impressive. Personally I've made quite out quite well with operating a modern C7 quickly, it is a very efficient layout, but to get 41 rounds through a Lee-Enfield, even just shot into a berm would take a lot of practice.

I know how I set up my kit for snap shooting and a few informal competitions we would have, but thinking this through for a LE still doesn't make it obvious.

If I had to attempt to train to meet this record I think go in the following manner:

Start with a full 10 round magazine and 1 round in the chamber for eleven.

Shoot and cycle as fast as possible, counting the 11, getting it wrong would waste time on an empty chamber or botch the next 10 round top up.

Placement and loading the next 10 rounds is very important. I would try initially holding two chargers in my weak hand, in line with my fingers, think like a knuckle-duster, while firing the first 11 rounds. That way there would be one less movement to the magazine pouches.

Charger load with the weak hand, 10 rounds.

This would either work well or prove to be crap after a few attempts, especially where the receiver wall blocks left hand loading a little. Otherwise it would be simple strong hand loading from an open topped pouch.

Shoot and cycle as fast as possible, counting the 10, 21 shots by this point if it's all gone well.

The weak hand load (if it proved practical) would only work for the first reload, after that I think it would be back to the strong hand reload for the next 20 rounds.

All the while we are expected to actually hit something.

This would be an exciting but expensive course of fire to practice today. A fellow could get the cycling and reloading down with dummy rounds but scoring can only come with putting ball to paper.