+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: No4 Mk1/3 Origination and bolt head track

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Senior Member l1a1 breakdown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last On
    Today @ 07:14 PM
    Location
    Allentown PA
    Posts
    194
    Local Date
    12-06-2019
    Local Time
    08:34 PM

    No4 Mk1/3 Origination and bolt head track

    Greetings - I just rebuilt this rifle having found it as a sporter. The suncorite was nice throughout after its FTR. If this was a Savage No4Mk1* originally would the Fazakerley FTR have removed (machined off) the "US Property" mark off the receiver wall? No other clues remain per its Pre FTR identity.

    It shoots very well - however after 45 rounds and during slow prone the bolt head was jumping off its rail (only while firing and being cycled, dry fire / cycling does not produce it).

    There are now 2 small chips on the edges of the rail window in the receiver. I have to research the bolt head grove modifications that armorers used to help.



    So how bad do you think the receiver rail chips are? Fettle the metal?
    Should I relieve the bolt head grooves?
    What do you think of any scrubbed "US Property" marks on this FTR?

    Shot a personal best with her less 2 points overall - just needed a couple of MOA elevation..
    Last edited by l1a1 breakdown; 05-25-2019 at 04:05 PM.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
     

  3. #2
    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last On
    Today @ 08:00 PM
    Location
    Eastern England
    Posts
    1,522
    Local Date
    12-07-2019
    Local Time
    01:34 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by l1a1 breakdown View Post
    Greetings - I just rebuilt this rifle having found it as a sporter. The suncorite was nice throughout after its FTR. If this was a Savage No4Mk1* originally would the Fazakerley FTR have removed (machined off) the "US Property" mark off the receiver wall? No other clues remain per its Pre FTR identity.

    It shoots very well - however after 45 rounds and during slow prone the bolt head was jumping off its rail (only while firing and being cycled, dry fire / cycling does not produce it).

    There are now 2 small chips on the edges of the rail window in the receiver. I have to research the bolt head grove modifications that armorers used to help.

    So how bad do you think the receiver rail chips are? Fettle the metal?
    Should I relieve the bolt head grooves?
    What do you think of any scrubbed "US Property" marks on this FTR?

    Shot a personal best with her less 2 points overall - just needed a couple of MOA elevation..Attachment 100628Attachment 100627Attachment 100629Attachment 100630

    A not uncommon fault on both the Savage and Longbranch rifles (the Mk1* versions). It was for this reason that we 'gave away' these rifles to our allies (after the war) before, the UKicon produced ones (Mk1)


    You can radius the corners on the damaged rail and the bolt head but it is only an Elastoplast. If you can get the chipped part welded up and re-cut without generating too much heat, that is the way forward.


    As it stands it is potentially a dangerous rifle.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Advisory Panel Parashooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 08:35 PM
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    74
    Posts
    606
    Local Date
    12-06-2019
    Local Time
    08:34 PM
    Here's my Savage with a badly-mangled rail. Works fine after peening it just enough to hold.


  6. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to Parashooter For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:30 PM
    Location
    Gold Mountain
    Posts
    2,725
    Local Date
    12-06-2019
    Local Time
    05:34 PM
    The use of un-chamfered bolt heads is often the cause of this damage.

    I've always wondered about this ill-conceived modification. Mechanically it is asking for trouble as anyone with moderate sense could see. IDS indicates it was considered before WWII - witness the trials No.4 with the said cut-out - but obviously, and despite all the fiddling around with lightened and cheapened rifles, the idea was rejected.

    As UKicon production had all the problems with labour, enemy attacks, workspace, tooling etc. this mod should have been introduced there if anywhere! The fact that it wasn't should have alerted at least Long Branch to the likely problems. Savage perhaps just built what was ordered?

    It would be interesting to know at whose instigation or instruction it came to be introduced.
    "Deer-stalking would be a very fine sport if only the deer had guns." W. S. Gilbert.

  8. Thank You to Surpmil For This Useful Post:


  9. #5
    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last On
    Today @ 08:00 PM
    Location
    Eastern England
    Posts
    1,522
    Local Date
    12-07-2019
    Local Time
    01:34 AM
    [quote=Surpmil;453052]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surpmil View Post
    It would be interesting to know at whose instigation or instruction it came to be introduced.
    I'm sure I have read that it was from a suggestion by Savage as a way of simplifying / speeding up production.
    However without official 'records' it could just be 'internet theory'.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

  10. #6
    Advisory Panel green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    Today @ 12:50 PM
    Posts
    372
    Local Date
    12-06-2019
    Local Time
    08:34 PM
    As noted above a weakness of the I*. In service this would be cause to scrap the body.

  11. #7
    Advisory Panel Parashooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 08:35 PM
    Location
    Connecticut
    Age
    74
    Posts
    606
    Local Date
    12-06-2019
    Local Time
    08:34 PM
    When that sad Savage shown above arrived by US Mail in 1958, it had a Canadianicon military tag attached - indicating it was rejected for "worn bolt rail".

  12. Thank You to Parashooter For This Useful Post:


  13. #8
    Really Senior Member Maxwell Smart's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last On
    11-25-2019 @ 01:09 AM
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    403
    Local Date
    12-06-2019
    Local Time
    08:34 PM
    Judging by the style and location of the FTR marking, and the "A" prefix serial number, I think your rifle is a BSA Shirley conversion rather than a Fazakerley one.

    The BSA ones all seem to have been scrubbed of previous markings.

  14. Thank You to Maxwell Smart For This Useful Post:


  15. #9
    Advisory Panel
    Peter Laidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    11-26-2019 @ 10:07 AM
    Location
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire. The home of MG Cars
    Posts
    16,240
    Local Date
    12-07-2019
    Local Time
    03:34 AM
    Mmmmmm....... We would weld and repair body track ribs if the rest of the rifle body and barrel was worth saving. But wear to the extend of thread 3 would be BER/ZF. BSA didn't do the Mk1/1 to 1/3 modification for the UKicon Military. But if you gathered in 20 or so needy Mk1/1's and 1/3's together for repair, it was a speedy repair at a Field or Base workshop. It was definately not permitted to remove the US Property markings on our or allies rifles. They weren't ours to interfere with! They were loaned or leased to us!

  16. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to Peter Laidler For This Useful Post:


  17. #10
    Senior Member l1a1 breakdown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last On
    Today @ 07:14 PM
    Location
    Allentown PA
    Posts
    194
    Local Date
    12-06-2019
    Local Time
    08:34 PM
    Thread Starter
    Thanks for the supporting info so far!

    This was resurrected from a $101 sportster but shoots like a dream so is worth some effort to save. There is a light rub mark made by the lower side of the bolt head in the suncorite below the bolt head track. This tapers to be a heavier rub as the bolt closes - this may be the cause of the pressure challenging this bolt head out of the track at the gap. Ill look to add a chamfered edge to the bolt head to remove this rub and pressure first. if needed the end of bolt head groove chamfers can be next. I'll de-bur and round the receiver body rail edges too.

    So I'm still no further into knowing the original maker of the No4Mk1* - although the FTR work is very good and thorough!

    Worst case is its a very nice parts gun if the receiver continues to lose control of the bolt head. Or it waits for a good welder in my area. I was hoping to continue with this one in CMPicon meets and the like.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Problem with a MkIIIB bolt jumping its track
    By ForgottenWeapons in forum The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-19-2015, 12:46 PM
  2. Odd fact about bolt and bolt head.
    By bow in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-21-2013, 01:02 PM
  3. Bolt head jumping track, wot, again? yup, fraid so
    By RJW NZ in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 03-17-2012, 06:16 AM
  4. Bolt Release lever or do you rotate the bolt head?
    By Williamb in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-05-2009, 02:04 PM
  5. Looking for No8 bolt head.
    By Hal O'Peridol in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-19-2009, 09:14 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts