+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Ross M.1910 Mk.III Warner & Swasey Sniper Rifle Restoration

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 09:19 AM
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,450
    Local Date
    06-05-2020
    Local Time
    05:13 AM

    Ross M.1910 Mk.III Warner & Swasey Sniper Rifle Restoration

    Some may have already read on the Ross M.1910 Mk.III barreled action that had turned up and been discussed in this thread here: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=68310

    As I had mentioned at the very end of the thread I have been the one who bought the barreled sniper action from the seller. I have held a scope bracket milled to exact the original specs to the receiver, and it perfectly lined up with the holes in the receiver - therefore leaving little doubt on it once having been an original sniper rifle. For the start post I'm therefore re-posting the picture of holding the rail to the receiver showing how perfectly the holes align.

    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	ross2.jpg‎
Views:	190
Size:	454.1 KB
ID:	103399  

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
     

  3. #2
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 09:19 AM
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,450
    Local Date
    06-05-2020
    Local Time
    05:13 AM
    Thread Starter
    Second step was to find out which threading they had used to affix the base to the receiver. The original drawing said a very odd threading. Trying something Britishicon such as 4BA however turned out to not be correct, so I nevertheless I went through the hassle of getting a thread cutter for this extremely unusual threading and see if it fits. This was a special order since it is so uncommon.The result was that the drawing was fully correct, therefore I have then had made a set of screws to affix the base and this is where I'm currently at and what the attached pictures show. Last picture shows it with one of my Canadianicon scopes already in place - this already makes it very heavy and bulky too!

    Now to be done is the correct fitting of the scope rail to the receiver, as also visible in the pictures. And the screw heads are also a bit proud (as visible by the shadow, the diameter of the screw head is perfectly fitting), which however was done on purpose to properly fit them later too. Also the screws will then be shortened to correct length once fitting of the scope rail is done.

    Aside of this of course the barreled action needs to be recompleted with a lot of parts. I have purchased some of which I hope to be getting within the next few days to post some more progress. Additionally the receiver also needs some repair of a damage for which I'll need to give over to someone with more skills and abilities than I am. I hope this won't last too long, but good work takes time.
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	ross4.jpg‎
Views:	188
Size:	512.8 KB
ID:	103400   Click image for larger version

Name:	ross5.jpg‎
Views:	186
Size:	431.6 KB
ID:	103401   Click image for larger version

Name:	ross6.jpg‎
Views:	176
Size:	493.2 KB
ID:	103402   Click image for larger version

Name:	ross7.jpg‎
Views:	180
Size:	579.0 KB
ID:	103403  

  4. The Following 4 Members Say Thank You to Promo For This Useful Post:


  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #3
    Member gordon byrne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last On
    11-17-2019 @ 10:22 AM
    Posts
    17
    Local Date
    06-04-2020
    Local Time
    10:13 PM
    Well its great to see the old girl is coming along, it came close to being over looked. It was definitely aan original sniper rifle from the great war ,if only it could talk.Well its in good hands now and well be preserved and and cared for as a genuine relic of ww1.Cant wait to see the final product.

  7. #4
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Gold Mountain
    Posts
    3,137
    Local Date
    06-04-2020
    Local Time
    08:13 PM
    What's interesting about it is the change of number under the mount base. That could only be stamped there with the mount base removed. The logical conclusion therefore is that when the second scope was fitted the armourer removed the base from the original rifle in the belief that the base was unique to the scope, and that the side wall of the receiver was a consistent dimension so that when the base was fitted to the second rifle (this one), collimation would be be maintained.

    So, when originally fitted were the bases tweaked until they collimated, or were they fitted to the rifle and the dovetail then given its final machining in a jig, similar to how H&H machined the pads on the No.4(T)?

    And of course, just how accurately repeated were the side wall dimensions in the Ross MkIII?? Certainly they maintained a high standard of finish throughout production...

    We know from Clive Law's research that these rifles were requested by the UKicon in 1940, but Canadaicon declined to turn them over and used them for training until perhaps early 1944, when it seems the scopes were scrapped for their heavy bronze content, except for a couple of dozen survivors.

    From the available information, only about 150 of these rifles got to Franceicon in WWI, so presumably this one was refitted in WWII.
    "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." W.L.S.C..

  8. #5
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 09:19 AM
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,450
    Local Date
    06-05-2020
    Local Time
    05:13 AM
    Thread Starter
    Well .. a new scope was mounted if the previous scope got damaged or went missing. If it was damaged in action the scope rail might also got damaged. Therefore it doesn't mean the scope was individual to the rail. Since original rails also carried the scope serial, it could had been that they swapped the rail which came with the other scope which has had the correct serial on it too.

  9. #6
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Gold Mountain
    Posts
    3,137
    Local Date
    06-04-2020
    Local Time
    08:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Promo View Post
    Well .. a new scope was mounted if the previous scope got damaged or went missing. If it was damaged in action the scope rail might also got damaged. Therefore it doesn't mean the scope was individual to the rail. Since original rails also carried the scope serial, it could had been that they swapped the rail which came with the other scope which has had the correct serial on it too.
    One has to remember that most of these sets never got to Franceicon. They were used for training in WWII, and possibly some in WWI in the UKicon. My post was referring to the fact that the armourer apparently believed - and he may have had reasons - that the base or "rail" was to stay with the scope rather than the rifle.

    Clive Law's research showed that there were more scopes than rifles with bases in store in Canadaicon in the 1930s. This could be because the rifles had been worn out and were condemned and scrapped, or because they were simply "lost" in the system. His research also showed that the rifles and scopes were stored at different armouries: Lindsay, Ontario and Quebec City IIRC.

    When WWII began, additional bases were made up so as to fit all scopes to rifles. Also 80 odd scopes were sent to the UK with the 1st Division in 1939/40, to be fitted there to P14 rifles with bases made in the UK IIRC.

    So, this barrelled action may be one fitted up in WWI or WWII. Without the original stock there is no way to tell. As rifles or scopes were condemned from wear and tear in training use during WWI or II, "mixing and matching" would be expected.
    "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." W.L.S.C..

  10. #7
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 09:19 AM
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,450
    Local Date
    06-05-2020
    Local Time
    05:13 AM
    Thread Starter
    Rob, we've anyway had lengthy discussions on the P.14 with the Canadianicon W&S telescope ... still have not found one of these rifles, but I did not give up!

    For unknown reason this rifle got stripped of its original scope and a new one was fitted. Maybe it is as simple as the scopes and rifles were stored separately and the matching numbers scope got lost or damaged and they then fitted another scope - who knows. It is however interesting because I personally have not seen before another Ross where two scopes were fitted.

    Speaking of this, the rifle is currently with a friend of mine. Restoration on it will finally start next month (he had another project he is about to finish) and I hope to be able to get it back within the next half year. Quite a tough project since there are some parts that have to be rebuilt, welded and repaired. I borrowed the friend of mine another Ross M1910 rifle to check how it should look like, to make it easier to understand the function.

  11. #8
    Contributing Member AGB-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 07:30 PM
    Location
    Krugerville Texas
    Age
    80
    Posts
    189
    Local Date
    06-04-2020
    Local Time
    10:13 PM

  12. #9
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 09:19 AM
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,450
    Local Date
    06-05-2020
    Local Time
    05:13 AM
    Thread Starter
    I have the required original Canadianicon scope, but thanks for the link! Have seen this one, think it is a bit too pricey. I paid $ 3500 for my Canadian M1913 scope a few years back, compared to $ 1500 the US M1913 scopes were back then (all prices in USD, not CAD).

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Photo of Ross Mk III with Warner & Swasey sight
    By Krag in forum The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-21-2016, 09:17 AM
  2. Warner & Swasey Model 1908 M1903 Sniper Rifle
    By M1903Guy in forum M1903/1903A3/A4 Springfield Rifle
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-21-2015, 11:14 AM
  3. What rifle is this 1913 Warner & Swasey mount for?
    By Badger in forum Milsurps General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-04-2012, 01:26 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts