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Thread: NO 4 MK1 (T) VERIFICATION

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  1. #1
    Member TRAMO's Avatar
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    NO 4 MK1 (T) VERIFICATION

    I have a no 4 mk 1 (T) , i am certain it is a true (T) RIFLE, but i would like to get it verified by someone that would know for sure. it has all the markings on the metal it should have, the but stock numbers are not correct. the but stock does have the S 5 1 in the correct spot . you have to look at it at a certain angle to see it good. i sent pics to Capt stevens he says he thinks its the real thing.HE SAID ITS UNUSUAL to have a letter on that end of the serial # i live near nashville tn . I would gladly take it to someone that could look at it for me.serial # 36196V. i have owned this for over 20 years. import mark is from century arms. The guy i bought it from said he bought it from century arms.thanx tramo


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    Can you post some pictures TRAMO? If you can you'll have people falling over themselves to help you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRAMO View Post
    the but stock numbers are not correct.
    The 4T was supplied by H&H with a 'N' length butt only, if, when it was issued, the sniper required as 'S' or 'L' length then it would be changed by an Armourer and would then be down to the armourer to number / mark it up 'if he wanted to'.



    Copy of extract from the 1944 Components list
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    Last edited by Alan de Enfield; 02-08-2020 at 04:12 AM.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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    pics of my no 4 mk 1 (T). THAT I THINK IS THE REAL THING


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    pics of my no 4 mk 1 (T)


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    More questions first TRAMO! It is a genuine 4T so don't fret about that. However, I can't make up my mind about the markings on the butt socket. The rifle may have been renumbered at some point or the original number may have been reapplied (commonly done if the serial number was only marked shallowly, so as to make it clearer). Unfortunately there's a band of reflected light across the photo of the butt socket that would otherwise be most helpful. Could you get a pic looking straight down onto the serial number area of the butt socket? The finish on the butt socket is smooth & the rest of the body of the rifle has the late war textured brunofixed finish. I'm also not sure if in one of the photo's there mightn't just be a hint of file marks showing, but a couple of clear photo's would put that to bed one way or the other.

    It would also be helpful to know the year of manufacture (should also be on the butt socket sandwiched between the serial & the M47C), & a pic of the serial number on the bolt. It is odd that the V has been marked as a suffix rather than a prefix, but V prefixed serials are found on 1945 dated rifles, so if dated earlier something odd has gone on.

    So, the rifle is the real thing, but might have had the numbers altered or restamped at some point.

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    MORE pics of my no 4 mk 1 (T). THAT I THINK IS THE REAL THING


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    THE DATE ,USING A MAGNAFYING GLASS THE DATE LOOKS LIKE 1944. THE BOLT,MAG, BUT SOCKET ALL MATCH. IT HAS THE HARRY HEMBRICK INSPECTORS MARK. THE REAR SIGHT HAS ( SM ) ON THE SIDE. YOU CAN ALSO SEE THE ( S ) ON RIGHT SIDE OF RECIEVER.
    Last edited by TRAMO; 02-08-2020 at 02:36 PM. Reason: TO ADD TO IT

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    If the date is 1944 then you would not expect there to be a V in the serial number at all. Thanks for the additional photo's, by the way. The serial numbering on both the butt socket & the rear face of the bolt body is not 'factory original'. The digits on yours have been engraved, whereas they were stamped in the BSA factory. I must say, although the photo's are much closer up & show more detail I couldn't be sure that the date is 1944, although I don't have the rifle in hand & have a magnifying glass on it! Could it just possibly be 1945 not 1944? If so, a V as part of the serial number would be quite appropriate. It may well be that it is a 1945 rifle & at some point in its service life it had its serial number 'freshened up' by engraving - to make it easier to read - & during this process the V inadvertently got put at the end of the serial instead of the beginning. This would not surprise me at all. Going over a shallowly engraved or stamped serial number to make it deeper & so easier to make out was quite common.

    Incidentally, the rifle serial stamped into the front top part of the butt that fits into the butt socket of the receiver (body) appears to be genuine 4T, but not original to your rifle. I can't make out every digit from the photo, but it does not look like 36196 to me (letter prefixes were not stamped into the wood here, just the number).

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Roger Payne; 02-08-2020 at 08:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield View Post
    The 4T was supplied by H&H with a 'N' length butt only, if, when it was issued, the sniper required as 'S' or 'L' length then it would be changed by an Armourer and would then be down to the armourer to number / mark it up 'if he wanted to'.

    Copy of extract from the 1944 Components list
    The "fine adjustment backsight" reference is slightly odd, since it was simply a standard No.4 Rifle backsight!
    A conscious or unconscious hold-over from the description of the No.3 MkI*(T) presumably.
    "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." W.L.S.C..

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