LEE ENFIELD RARE .22 TRAINER....W/PICS

[bros]

I came upon this .22 trainer and was looking for additional info on this one. It has the crudely manufactured rear sight. Looks like it was made in Bubba's basement but it is "kosher".
I know I have seen a write-up on this rifle with this type of rear sight some time ago but where....I can't remember and for the life of me I can't seem to find the old reference to it. I looked on rifleman.org.uk and also checked out Skennerton's "The Lee Enfield" but I didn't see it there either. Maybe someone here could point me in the right direction........
This rifle came out of an estate sale....don't pay attention to what is written on the tag...that's not my info and I know it's incorrect.
The rifle itself has from my memory is stamped on the knox, "Birmingham Small Arms", the muzzle is also stamped, "PARKER RIFLED AGP".
Bolt matches, nose cap, fore-stock, barrel I believe matches but I will confirm that.....the original rear sight is gone but the base remains....bore is excellent


Any thoughts and additional info appreciated.

Now going to try this picture posting business again....

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[bros]

Well results were close but no cigar yet!! Don't know why that one picture is outside the bloody box!! LOL!!! At least the pictures are there. I tried to do what one member suggested in my last post but the results were the same......my fault for sure!!

Anyhow I will post a few more pictures of the stampings underneath rear hand-guard tomorrow or Sunday and if anyone want's to see additional pictures I can post them then as well.

Thanks.

[NORTHOF60]

Looks like Lee-Enfield Rifle No.2 Mk.IV* Pattern (A.G.P. /Parker Rifled - Enfield No. 1 MkIII*) commercial training rifle.

[bros]

Looks like Lee-Enfield Rifle No.2 Mk.IV* Pattern (A.G.P. /Parker Rifled - Enfield No. 1 MkIII*) commercial training rifle.

Any thoughts what a "commercial training rifle" was used for......was this used in service? Who made this this crudely manufactured rear sight and was it most likely fitted by who?

[Melanie_Daniels]

All rifles with this backsight I saw were used in New Zealand as Training rifles for the No. 4. My Example has also New Zealand stamp marks.

[Son]

The fact that the rifle dos not appear to ave any conversion markings, and to the best of my recollections and reading, the Sht LE MkIV .22/ Sht LE No2 MkIV rifles had new made solid barrels, not tubed, makes me think NORTHOF60 has got this right.
The rifle was likely converted commercially post service to .22 rimfire using a "Parker Rifled" tube insert. These were done for use by "Miniature Rifle Clubs". Any competent gunsmith could effect the conversion, but the muzzle stamp indicates the barrel was sleeved by AGP at least.
Would be interesting to see if the barrel is dated to the rifle build and serial numbered too...
The sight looks a bit rougher than pictures I have seen of the NZ model, but not to be discounted... It looks to have been poorly fitted too, makes me think the rifle wasn't a trainer in NZ service... (markings on other areas might prove this assumption wrong.)

Yes, the sight was designed to give a "No4 sight picture" to an SMLE trainer.

[55recce]

I am not convinced by either the NZ connection or the thought that the rear sight was designed to give a No 4 Sight picture. I have seen several of these in Canada and own one. No NZ markings on these. I am pretty sure they are a UK thing and perhaps used by civilian rifle clubs or by cadets.
The RAF theory is also unconvincing as the ones I have seen do not have any RAF markings. Apart from the No. 7 it seems to me that the RAF mostly used commercial .22 rifles for target practice. They did not really have a need to emulate the service rifles like the army .22 trainers do.

[bros]

More pictures...maybe this will help!!
I mentioned in my original post nose cap was matching....sorry un-numbered!!

[Alan de Enfield]

How about :

.22 RF PATTERN 1914 SHORT RIFLE No. 2
Approved 28th April 1916 (LoC 17755) for Land Service, this is the first rifle made from up from an original SMLE Mk III. Again, the .303 barrel was bored out and a .22 calibre liner inserted. Conversions were done by A.G. Parker & Co. Ltd. and Wesley Richards & Co. Some 1,743 conversions reported.

[breakeyp]

These pictures are of my New Zealand training rifle.