Longbranch No.4 Mk1 (no star) Question

[Roy W]

I have read the reference article regarding the Mk1 rifles from 0L and 1L series.

https://www.milsurps.com/content.php...g-Branch-Rifle

One paragraph raises my question:

Other bits that were slowly changed as production went along was the early style button cocking piece, the singer style rear sight, the notched front hand guard for the band hinge, and the low walled forend cut out for a magazine cut off. Later on in Mk I* production the hand guard bands were no longer milled and further in production the trigger guard was assembled out of stamped pieces and the rear sight was changed from the "L" flip type to the Canadian CMk 3 and CMk 4 style.

So, based on this, could a 1L46XX rifle conceivably have a square cocking piece, Mk3 rear sight, plain upper hand guard and no mag cut off cut out in the fore-end?

OR, are these parts likely to be replacements? I can't get photos yet, but they will follow when the rifle arrives.

Information

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[limpetmine]

A 1 L46xx is still a No. 4 Mk 1 (no star). Very very close to the change over at 1L5979.
I would still expect this rifle to have the button knob, grooved upper HG and a Type 1 or 2 back sight.
How does the serial number on the bolt look? Does the bolt font match the receiver heel serial number?
Has the bolt been ground?
Does the rifle "look" right, with grunge in the right places, or does it look immaculately clean.
Post some pictures; they'd help.
-limpetmine

[Lee Enfield]

A 1 L46xx is still a No. 4 Mk 1 (no star). Very very close to the change over at 1L5979.
I would still expect this rifle to have the button knob, grooved upper HG and a Type 1 or 2 back sight.
How does the serial number on the bolt look? Does the bolt font match the receiver heel serial number?
Has the bolt been ground?
Does the rifle "look" right, with grunge in the right places, or does it look immaculately clean.
Post some pictures; they'd help.
-limpetmine

This rifle would have been manufactured with a MkII cocking piece, and a MkII 2 position flip sight - the forend wood could be relieved for the non existant cut off and the bolt knob should have a hole, but again, close to the cut off.

The MkIII sights came on stream about June 1944 from the Canadian Army returns - and they were slowly retrofitted to issued rifles as they required service and all stored and newly issued rifles were to be converted to the MkIII rear sight.

[Roy W]

This rifle would have been manufactured with a MkII cocking piece, and a MkII 2 position flip sight - the forend wood could be relieved for the non existant cut off and the bolt knob should have a hole, but again, close to the cut off.

The MkIII sights came on stream about June 1944 from the Canadian Army returns - and they were slowly retrofitted to issued rifles as they required service and all stored and newly issued rifles were to be converted to the MkIII rear sight.

Thanks for the replies. So the squares cocking piece could be correct. The wood may not be relieved for the cut off.

I will wait until it arrives and have a look at all the markings and go from there

Thanks

[Surpmil]

The Mk.I Long Branch rifles I have seen all had the hole in the bolt knob; how long this continued after Mk.I* production began I don't know, but as per some other features like the Mk.I cocking piece, it may well have. I have a 1L5--- here, but just a bare receiver I'm afraid.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Only ever seen ONE LB Mk1 (no *) ever, and that was several months ago at the local "toy shop".

I did not write down the serial number, but it had ALL of the features of the early rifles.

How it escaped all the "upgrades" and found its way to Oz remains a mystery.

[Roy W]

Only ever seen ONE LB Mk1 (no *) ever, and that was several months ago at the local "toy shop".

I did not write down the serial number, but it had ALL of the features of the early rifles.

How it escaped all the "upgrades" and found its way to Oz remains a mystery.

Apparently several thousands of the early rifles were sent to Australia, so there could be more around down there.

[mrclark303]

Only ever seen ONE LB Mk1 (no *) ever, and that was several months ago at the local "toy shop".

I did not write down the serial number, but it had ALL of the features of the early rifles.

How it escaped all the "upgrades" and found its way to Oz remains a mystery.

Possibly via New Zealand?

I believe NZ had a quantity of Lend lease Lb No4's.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

And, there I was, flipping channels over a cup of coffee, when on comes a documentary about Torres Strait Islanders and, in this segment, about their relationship with the military, Australian and otherwise. There in all their glory was a platoon? on parade, and ALL the front rank had No4 rifles. I suspect that this is another Australian War Memorial "official" picture and not just some random "happy snap".

I'll see what I can find via the AWM archives. origin of the photo and, perhaps, how many more were in the series taken by the photographer.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Here's a screen-grab from that docco ("Blue Water Empire") (attached JPEG file)

INTERESTING webbing.