+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 40

Thread: GCA Article On M1 Clip

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Senior Member ROCK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 09:35 PM
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    106
    Local Date
    06-15-2021
    Local Time
    01:01 PM

    GCA Article On M1 Clip

    Just read the article 'Don"t Blame John Garand' in the latest GCAicon magazine.

    I found it very interesting and I have a few observations of my own.

    First, I don't blame John Garand. I praise him for designing a very well thought out magazine design. I prefer it to a detachable magazine.

    His design provides one of the quickest reloads among the many military rifle designs.



    Garand's clip is light, durable and extremely reusable. I have one clip I use for function testing that has been cycled many times with only finish wear.

    I believe the Army made the right choice. They wanted magazine capacity to be no more that 10 rounds. A !0 round detachable magazine weighs a lot more than one 8 round clip.

    Apparently, the military was not impressed with higher capacity magazines before full auto rifles were developed. There was a 25 round magazine conversion developed for the 03 Springfield. They made them for 98 Mausers too. They never became standard issue for all rifles. The SMLE was standard issue with a detachable 10 round box magazine and they could have easily increased its capacity. The Swissicon decreased the magazine capacity of the later Schmidt Ruben designs from 12 to 6. If there was an advantage to increasing magazine capacity on the bolt actions, the military users didn't seem to notice it. The foreign contemporary semi autos of the Garand usually maxxed out magazine capacity at 10 rounds and reloaded from the top via stripper clips.

    Magazine capacities of 10 rounds, with the capability of quick reloads with clips, was considered adequate for the rate of fire a semiautomatic rifle could produce. The 8 round M1icon clip provided a very fast reload and the Army apparently did not think that 2 more rounds were necessary. They probably adopted the 8 round clip to avoid the thicker bottom profile in the magazine area that was a feature of the .276 Garand rifle.

    Detachable box magazines containing 20 or more rounds were not necessary until the introduction of full automatic rifles and their much higher rate of fire and ammunition consumption.

  2. The Following 10 Members Say Thank You to ROCK For This Useful Post:


  3. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire LIMITED TIME OFFER FROM THE AMERICAN GUNSMITHING INSTITUTE: Get Immediate Online Access To AGI's NEW Armorer's Course for Glock Pistols, Covering Every Generation of Glocks, Including the Latest Model 42/43 and Double Stack Pistols for ONLY $7.00! Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #2
    Really Senior Member Eaglelord17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 05:34 PM
    Location
    Sault Ste. Marie, ON
    Posts
    1,164
    Local Date
    06-15-2021
    Local Time
    01:01 PM
    I recently got myself a Type 2 M1icon Garand which I had the joys of taking out of the grease (can't wait to shoot it more once my range opens up again). I am shocked at just how ergonomic this rifle is. Safety is easy to engage and disengage. Sights are easy to use and effective. Loading is extremely fast with the 8rd clip, and if I practice a bit I am sure I could get very efficient with it. You can also keep a really low profile which is something that isn't as appreciated these days.

    I would take the 8rd clip over a 10rd detachable magazine any day. No requirement to load magazines before hand, your ammo is issued on clips already. If you run out of clips your literally out of ammo so that isn't a issue. No damaged magazines to worry about. Just overall a fantastic design and until you start getting into the 20rd magazine range you really wouldn't see much of a rate of fire difference. It is also easier to produce all those clips than it is to make magazines. Plus if they were a 10rd magazine I guarantee you the military would have been insistent on stripper clip loading like just about every military at the same time period, which is slower than shoving a 8rd enbloc in.

  5. The Following 3 Members Say Thank You to Eaglelord17 For This Useful Post:


  6. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  7. #3
    Senior Member ROCK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 09:35 PM
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    106
    Local Date
    06-15-2021
    Local Time
    01:01 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglelord17 View Post
    No requirement to load magazines before hand, your ammo is issued on clips already. If you run out of clips your literally out of ammo so that isn't a issue.
    Never thought of it that way. The loaded clip is like an old camera cartridge that contains 8 shots that aren't pictures.

    It is also easier to produce all those clips than it is to make magazines. Plus if they were a 10rd magazine I guarantee you the military would have been insistent on stripper clip loading like just about every military at the same time period, which is slower than shoving a 8rd enbloc in.
    You're right about that. The Army once considered doing that with the M14icon prior to its adoption. They were thinking of issuing semi auto only M14's with fixed 10 round magazines loaded with stripper clips.

  8. #4
    Advisory Panel
    bob seijas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:16 AM
    Location
    Montville, NJ and Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    1,946
    Local Date
    06-15-2021
    Local Time
    01:01 PM
    Real Name
    Bob Seijas
    Many GIs said they valued the Ping! that alerted them to an empty rifle in a firefight.
    Real men measure once and cut.

  9. #5
    Senior Member ROCK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 09:35 PM
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    106
    Local Date
    06-15-2021
    Local Time
    01:01 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Seijasicon View Post
    Many GIs said they valued the Ping! that alerted them to an empty rifle in a firefight.
    I've read that in official troop surveys done by the Army. I believe the Army came to the same conclusion although I have not seen official documents stating so. I do believe that the Army could have muted the ping sound if they thought it was a problem by a change in clip metallurgy or through design changes.

  10. #6
    Advisory Panel
    Rick B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:41 PM
    Location
    Hinckley, Ohio
    Posts
    486
    Local Date
    06-15-2021
    Local Time
    01:01 PM
    Add Rick B on Facebook Visit Rick B's Youtube Channel
    Real Name
    RICHARD BORECKY
    Rock, What Bob is saying is the shooter can hear it and be alerted that his rifle is empty. He is not talking about the false story always told about G.I.'s tossing clips so the enemy would jump up and charge so they could shoot them. Rick Bicon

  11. Thank You to Rick B For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Senior Member ROCK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 09:35 PM
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    106
    Local Date
    06-15-2021
    Local Time
    01:01 PM
    Thread Starter
    Understood Rick. I was referring to the ping being a sort of an empty rifle alarm that aided the shooter. I believe the Army thought the same way too. There is probably a document confirming that somewhere in the National Archives awaiting discovery.

  13. Thank You to ROCK For This Useful Post:


  14. #8
    Really Senior Member jond41403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Tn
    Posts
    236
    Local Date
    06-15-2021
    Local Time
    01:01 PM
    On YouTube there is a video of a veteran speaking about his time in battle. He was a truck driver that got cornered in a house and at the 12:20 mark, he starts to describe the M1icon and the ping sound and how the enemy knew he was out of ammunition. I know it's not the norm situation, but this is an interesting story he tells to say the least. I wish I knew how to post links to this site but the video is titled "surrounded by the enemy"
    "good night Chesty, Wherever You Are"

  15. #9
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 11:06 AM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    25,767
    Local Date
    06-15-2021
    Local Time
    10:01 AM
    "Surrounded by the enemy" Have a listen at about twelve minutes onward. Comes in about twelve minutes thirty...

    You still can't hear that clang over gunfire though...

    Regards, Jim

  16. The Following 3 Members Say Thank You to browningautorifle For This Useful Post:


  17. #10
    Really Senior Member jond41403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Tn
    Posts
    236
    Local Date
    06-15-2021
    Local Time
    01:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    "Surrounded by the enemy" Have a listen at about twelve minutes onward. Comes in about twelve minutes thirty...

    You still can't hear that clang over gunfire though...

    Thank you BAR, that's exactly the video I was referring to. Very interesting story nonetheless

    ---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------

    I also thought it was interesting that he mentions that at the time, that they had heard rumors that that had worked. He called them tricks. I agree there's no way you could hear that in a huge gunfight, but I guess in certain situations you could

    ---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------

    I always thought that the enblock clip / ping story was a post-war thing
    "good night Chesty, Wherever You Are"

  18. Thank You to jond41403 For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Bandolier and clip ID
    By BartInGolden in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-20-2013, 04:11 PM
  2. Garand clip
    By Guderian3rd in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-07-2012, 12:10 AM
  3. Clip latch/clip latch spring question...
    By kfields in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-22-2010, 09:49 AM
  4. Clip art
    By read6737 in forum Milsurps General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-29-2010, 07:16 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts