+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: First Time Out With My Trapdoor

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Legacy Member oldfoneguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:25 PM
    Location
    long island, ny
    Posts
    561
    Real Name
    Bill
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:01 AM

    First Time Out With My Trapdoor

    Ok so this is nothing to shout about however there are a boatload of excuses I can attach to it. Front sight is way too low and a wrong middle band doesn't let the Buffington lay down all the way. Over 60 year old eyes and a 130 year old Buffington sight! Ammo I didn't load myself ect ect ect.

    This is my first time using a rifle of this type and I have to admidt it was a lot of fun. My brother was at the next bench with his AR and we had a laugh about the huge technology gap in the century between the 2 different service rifle types. This 8 round group was all I could do during a single range session. My brother did 5 magazines.

    Obviously the big holes are the trapdoor and the orange spot I added to the bottom was my point of aim. There's a lot of potential in this huge boomstick and I will develop it over time. I had a lot of fun and that was the point of this exercise.
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	20220505_160402.jpg‎
Views:	201
Size:	937.3 KB
ID:	126053  
    Last edited by oldfoneguy; 05-05-2022 at 11:21 PM.

  2. The Following 3 Members Say Thank You to oldfoneguy For This Useful Post:


  3. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #2
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:05 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    29,836
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    01:01 AM
    No, it looks good. Lots there to work with and the bore was stellar. Once you start loading and get the bugs out it'll be fine.
    Regards, Jim

  5. Thank You to browningautorifle For This Useful Post:


  6. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  7. #3
    Legacy Member steveu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Last On
    03-24-2024 @ 05:18 PM
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    81
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    02:01 AM
    What size are the bullets/alloy? If you want to get the best accuracy out of that rifle you will have to get some .461-.462" bullets. A chamber cast will tell you what you need.

  8. #4
    Legacy Member oldfoneguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:25 PM
    Location
    long island, ny
    Posts
    561
    Real Name
    Bill
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:01 AM
    Thread Starter
    The bullets are a 405gr .460 diameter hard cast of unknown alloy with a semi wadcutter profile. I've slugged the barrel and found .464 grooves and .454 lands. I know that there are better bullets but these came with the rifle and there are nearly 400 of them so from an economic standpoint I'll be using these for a while. It also came with some 350gr but I don't think I'll be using those as I have read accuracy falls off as the weight goes down. I didn't load these rounds so I can't vouch for their consistency. I weighed them and only used the middle average ones but none were the exact same weight. I believe they were charged with a Lee dipper and not a scale as that was part of the die set that came with it.

    Once I get the small issues with the rifle completed I'll concentrate on the loads. Even with an undersized bullet I should be able to tighten the grouping some. I'll start hinting now about the bullets I want for my birthday.

  9. #5
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:05 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    29,836
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    01:01 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by oldfoneguy View Post
    It also came with some 350gr
    The word used to be that the 350s were the bullets to hunt with, I did use them with no ill effects for accuracy in "3 Ruger, '86 Winchester but I was shooting at closer rangers. Not even 100 yds...I also used some 405 cast and they worked well on white tails. Again, not black powder and mostly '86 Winchester for white tail.
    Regards, Jim

  10. #6
    Legacy Member oldfoneguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:25 PM
    Location
    long island, ny
    Posts
    561
    Real Name
    Bill
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:01 AM
    Thread Starter
    I'll never use this huge thing to hunt with Jim. I have my Savage 99 and a Winchester 94 as backup whenever I head out to the woods. There's no doubt 45-70 will stop most anything that moves on this continent but this trapdoors 32-1/2 inch barrel is the size of my hunting rifles. As a range toy ok as a hunting rifle it's real easy to do better.

  11. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to oldfoneguy For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Contributing Member ssgross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 09:16 PM
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,517
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    04:01 AM
    I'll give you the highlights of Spencer and Pat Wolf's reasearch...https://www.amazon.com/Loading-cartr.../dp/157579019X

    1) I would highly recommend ordering the book. Pat sells it on amazon marketplace at the link above. She included a very nice personalized note to me...a stranger... on the inside cover when I bought the book with my first trapdoor.

    2) soft cast bullets, 20:1 or 30:1 are key to expanding to engage the rather deep rifling. Hard cast, and especially copper jackets, will ruin your barrel over time. The copper jackets in 50-100 rds accuracy will greatly fall off with the extensive throat erosion they cause.

    3) slug your bore and measure before you select bullet diameter. Original bullets were .458, soft cast.

    4) Original bullet shape, 405gr hollow base or 500gr shoot best...again soft lead. I'm not set up for casting (yet), and don't shoot mine too often, so I buy bullets from buffalo arms, a few hundred a year. https://www.buffaloarms.com/458-405-...-458405hb.html
    They also sell these sized to other diameters. Again, slug your bore. You don't have to go over groove diameter. The trapdoor springfield groove spec 3 grooves @ .458. (of course there was a range of tolerances in manufacturing) The Wolfs' research showed the original hollow base .458 projectiles were the key to accuracy, the hollow base expanding to fully engage the deep grooves. Likewise, the 500gr flat base were heavy enough, and soft enough for the chamber pressure to squish the base into the rifling.

    5) Be careful hand loading. if going black powder, you have to compress the charge first. Keep loads at or under the original muzzle velocities. I use smokeless loads. The big Lee manual has plenty of data for a variety of bullet weights and a long list of powders. Lyman cast manual is a good reference too. The Wolfs' have load data, but their smokeless powder of choice isn't available anymore, hasn't been for several years.

    Lastly, I greatly improved my shooting at 100yds by fitting a front sight blade from SS firearms, doing some math and filing it down to the height/shape I wanted. I keep the original blade in the buttstock.

  13. #8
    Legacy Member oldfoneguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:25 PM
    Location
    long island, ny
    Posts
    561
    Real Name
    Bill
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:01 AM
    Thread Starter
    Wow you read my mind on many points. As previously mentioned I did slug the barrel and found .464 in the grooves and .454 from the lands and yes 3 groove rifling is a pain to measure correctly. 130 years can provide wear but manufacturing tolerances also weren't what they are today.

    I can't speak of how it was used in the past but I would never use a jacketed bullet in this bore. Original loading of 70grs black powder and the 405gr slug devolped 1350fps and the 500gr devolped 1300 with the same charge so right there is what I'm aiming for and I'll be using the chronograph for confirmation. Without knowing it apparently I have many of the smokeless powders recommended for 45-70 loading so I will be doing lots of experimentation. Someday I'll load some black powder rounds for effect and wow factor but that's off in the future after all is said and done with the rifle.

    I've ordered and received the missing ramrod bayonet from S&S and plan another order this week that does include the tall front sight and pin. I also have some parts to order from classic firearms and parts in New Hampshire. Now if only my eyes were 20 years younger I could really see that tiny Buffington rear sight.

    If you check out the thread "srs check on possible trapdoor purchase" in Other US Service Rifles rifles I've included many pictures including the bore I'm working with and yes I did purchase the rifle!
    Last edited by oldfoneguy; 05-07-2022 at 09:31 PM.

  14. Thank You to oldfoneguy For This Useful Post:


  15. #9
    Legacy Member oldfoneguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:25 PM
    Location
    long island, ny
    Posts
    561
    Real Name
    Bill
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:01 AM
    Thread Starter

    2nd Range Trip 5/13

    So I got back to the range today with the trapdoor only this time the majority of the rounds were mine. I'm kind of a perfectionist when I load anything, charges weighed to the granule, cases uniform length, primer pockets and flash holes uniformed. You can see in the box I have them segregated by headstamp. Had both W-W and R-P cases.

    The bullets were 300gr flat noses that came with the rifle. The Hodgon starting load for this bullet and H4198 powder is 30grs with a wad and CCI 200 primers. Used an extremely light crimp with the Lee factory crimp die. They are claimed to be 1390fps at 14,400 cup. Nice and mild on the shoulder and the rifle. Followed that recipe and got these results.

    Still shooting much higher than expected. First shot was a dead center in the dot above when aiming 6 o'clock on the large dot. Moved down to 6 o'clock on the bottom dot and did what you see here. I need to figure out why i pull this rifle to the right so often. 12 shots total of my ammo, it was a rather abbreviated range trip today. I added reference dots for my point of aim.

    The 5 shots in the black circle were the 405gr rounds that came with the rifle. Those are not very precise. Same hold, same point of aim. It did become obvious to me by using those rounds that the rear sight did drop some with the correct middle band relieved for the Buffington sight. I'll just shoot those rounds with no hope of good grouping just to empty the cases so I can load them myself.
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	20220512_210854.jpg‎
Views:	103
Size:	1.12 MB
ID:	126199   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220512_211230.jpg‎
Views:	104
Size:	1.04 MB
ID:	126200   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220513_120316.jpg‎
Views:	106
Size:	1.39 MB
ID:	126201   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220513_124230.jpg‎
Views:	110
Size:	1.60 MB
ID:	126202   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220513_134906.jpg‎
Views:	91
Size:	1.09 MB
ID:	126203  
    Last edited by oldfoneguy; 05-13-2022 at 04:50 PM.

  16. #10
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:05 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    29,836
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    01:01 AM
    Different profile of bullet than I ever used but your groups look fine. At least on the right road.
    Regards, Jim

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. First Post and Trapdoor, so SRS time!
    By newcastleadam in forum Other U.S. Service Rifles
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-18-2022, 12:47 PM
  2. Trapdoor Carbine
    By mar53 in forum Other U.S. Service Rifles
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-23-2017, 11:24 AM
  3. New to me Trapdoor
    By MTwoodsman in forum Other U.S. Service Rifles
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 09-08-2017, 09:11 PM
  4. My first Trapdoor is on it's way!
    By vonfatman in forum Other U.S. Service Rifles
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-23-2010, 12:36 AM
  5. Trapdoor?
    By cathammer in forum Other U.S. Service Rifles
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-18-2009, 10:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks