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    Contributing Member RobD's Avatar
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    Gallipoli and dysentery

    I was intrigued to come across this, which I didn't know, though others may be familiar with it. [Dysentery is a form of infectious diarrhoea, can be severe or fatal, and characteristically causes the passage of blood and mucus].

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20324148
    'Epidemic bacillary dysentery... was the main cause of the Gallipoli failure. No fewer than 120,000 casualties were evacuated from the Peninsula from July to November 1915 and they were mostly due to bacillary dysentery...'

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    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    That is very interesting indeed. We know that 60% of the deaths in the 2nd Boer War were due to disease, mostly apparently from the failure to provide sanitary drinking water supplies: the so-called "Enteric fever".

    An ironic failure considering the effort the Japaneseicon, and probably others as well, put into copying and putting into military use the ceramic water filters pioneered in the U.K.

    So it seems the lesson was not learned in South Africa - one wonders when it was finally learned?

    A subject worthy of a much closer and wider study.

    Interesting the struggles the Japanese had with Beri-Beri
    Last edited by Surpmil; 09-08-2022 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Bit more.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

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    Contributing Member Tom in N.J.'s Avatar
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    In my opinion, the main cause of the failure of the Gallipoli invasion was the Turkishicon Army... Fighting for their homeland, out numbered in most cases, these 'bloody wogs' just plain out fought the allied invasion forces. My Uncle Jack Spratt was just too happy to get out of there alive.

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    Legacy Member Strangely Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom in N.J. View Post
    In my opinion, the main cause of the failure of the Gallipoli invasion was the Turkishicon Army... Fighting for their homeland, out numbered in most cases, these 'bloody wogs' just plain out fought the allied invasion forces. My Uncle Jack Spratt was just too happy to get out of there alive.
    So very true!
    As a nation we never count our defeats; instead we present them as heroic actions and focus on individual stories of valour whilst not dwelling on the bigger picture.

    I wonder what my father would have thought of the films made about Dunkirk?
    Family history has it that he made it into a coal barge with other elements of the East Lancs to escape back to Blighty, the sole mention of it was made when my older brother made fun of the "Sally" army band one remembrance parade post war and was told to shut up because they had given him a blanket on his arrival at the docks.
    Mick

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    And the Red Cross sold the blankets......
    My father in law spent the war in the UKicon and had nothing but good to say about the Sally Ann.
    He would not donate one single penny to the Red Cross as they were selling all the knitting and other items Canadianicon women sent to the overseas boys.
    I was just thinking that the smell on the ships evacuating from Gallipoli must have rivalled a cattle boat!!!
    Having been to Gallipoli what a daunting task they had to go up the cliffs.
    The cliffs there are almost straight up.
    I started to dig in the cliffs and sand looking for artifacts but got the run put on me by a Turkishicon forestry patrol...

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    Infections from wounds, as well as almost non-existent sanitary practices probably carried off more troops than direct combat up to WW2.

    In the last great unpleasantness, the Allies had bulk antibiotics, mostly sourced from Penicillin "Pharms" in Canadaicon and the USAicon.

    Because they had basically NO penicillin, Axis deaths from wounds, injuries and diseases were disproportionately higher.

    The US Civil war and the Crimean War saw the first glimmers of a systematic approach to casualty treatment, but "finesse" was somewhat lacking. Lots of Carbolic acid and alcohol being splashed about, with a vague notion of "antisepsis, but the introduction of practical "asepsis" (keeping the bugs out so you do not have to fight them later), started to nudge the death-rate down. It was the same in civilian hospitals. Stories of doctors walking straight from a messy autopsy into a delivery room without changing gowns or washing hands do not boost confidence regarding the survival of mother or baby..

    The much later introduction of "Keyhole" surgery (making the smallest possible incision to do the job) also saw a reduction in recovery times and post-op infections. Slicing frm the sternum to the groin to deal with a feral gall bladder or similar, was an iatrogenic death waiting to happen.

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    One of the issues with the Britishicon fighting the new Americans, was that Malaria was as bad as any fighting force against them. The British Soldiers suffered and were not able to fight as well in their weakened condition.

    Malaria in Wars and Victims Malaria Site

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz View Post
    Infections from wounds, as well as almost non-existent sanitary practices probably carried off more troops than direct combat up to WW2.

    In the last great unpleasantness, the Allies had bulk antibiotics, mostly sourced from Penicillin "Pharms" in Canadaicon and the USAicon.

    Because they had basically NO penicillin, Axis deaths from wounds, injuries and diseases were disproportionately higher.

    The US Civil war and the Crimean War saw the first glimmers of a systematic approach to casualty treatment, but "finesse" was somewhat lacking. Lots of Carbolic acid and alcohol being splashed about, with a vague notion of "antisepsis, but the introduction of practical "asepsis" (keeping the bugs out so you do not have to fight them later), started to nudge the death-rate down. It was the same in civilian hospitals. Stories of doctors walking straight from a messy autopsy into a delivery room without changing gowns or washing hands do not boost confidence regarding the survival of mother or baby..

    The much later introduction of "Keyhole" surgery (making the smallest possible incision to do the job) also saw a reduction in recovery times and post-op infections. Slicing frm the sternum to the groin to deal with a feral gall bladder or similar, was an iatrogenic death waiting to happen.
    There are other effective "herbal" antiseptics of course. Have read that garlic juice was used in WWI to good effect and of course honey itself being hygroscopic is an excellent antiseptic. Have also read that in WWI the Russians included a clay powder with the soldier's rations and that this was highly effective for dysentery. The lessons from the case of Dr. Semmelweis are timeless. Women were still dying of "iatragenic" "puerperal fever" by the tens of thousands generations after his death.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

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    A small book from my shelves written in the first person to our then Prime Minister probably one of the best short accounts of what turned out to be folly of the highest order but at the time the objective was set and a plan hatched.
    No one will ever say that the troops that landed there that fateful morning nor the troops defending their homeland shores fought with any less vigor than was expected of them, our boys nearly carried the day such was their endeavour but it was not to be and thus the stalemate occurred much like the Western front trenches.
    There were heroics from all ranks of services involved for our boys perhaps it started as a game but after the debacle in April then in May when the truce was in affect the Aussie diggers got to see first hand their adversary was amiable as they were and grudgingly gave "Abdul" the nod of approval as a fighter.

    If you follow our efforts in the first world war it really hit home as in those years Australiaicon's population was around 5-6 million people so WWI touched allot of the families a bit like the Pal's Battalions the Britishicon came up with to replace the carnage on the Western Front.
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    Cinders the father of uncle Rupert was a great journalist he probably is turning over in his grave knowing what the Murdoch empire is doing now . FYI Returning to Aussie in September to build the beach shack

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