Turkish Mauser M1938 K.Kale 1942

[82Trooper]

Hello:
I have the chance to help out a friend with their deceased father's firearms collection. We are in process of sorting them out and going thru them to identify exactly what she has, cleaning them up and ensuring they are not missing any parts.

I believe this is a M1938 Turkish Mauser...manufactured in 1942. It is marked "AS RA" "TC ANK ARA" and "K. Kale" with a crescent/star. S/N is 110604.

Trying to research how to remove the barrel/receiver from the stock, for a thorough cleaning of the barrel below the wood line. I watched a few videos on line, and have removed the bolt, the trigger guard and the front barrel band/bayonet lug with no issues. But am stymied by the second barrel band which seems to have a pin/screw/nail through it. It appears to be peened over, and the design suggests it is not meant to be removed easily.

Can anyone share with me what is the accepted process to remove this and then reinstall it, with an eye towards keeping the original attributes as much as possible? Any insight you can offer would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Also..to remove the full stock, does the circled brass part (recoil lug?) need to be removed?

[Aragorn243]

Recoil lug does not need to be removed. Not sure on the barrel band but it is possible the upper hand guard is held with a spring clamp at or near the rear and prying it up from the back will break it loose and you can back it out of the band. It could also be the rear sight screw holding it. I have one of these but never took it apart as it was pretty clean when I bought it. Whether that give enough room to get past the front sight, I don't know but I can't imagine them making these so they can't be disassembled easily.

The band could prevent the barrel assembly from lifting out far enough to clear the trigger also which pretty much means the pin has to come out.

I did find a video on it but that particular rifle had a normal spring retainer and no pin. My rifle also has the spring retainer.

[browningautorifle]

I don't think that front band has the correct cross pin/screw. I'll bet when you get it out you'll have a fine thread machine screw someone peened the end over to hold it. Looks like a round head slot screw...I'll bet this screw was supposed to be like the Winchester band screws and it's stripped out. As stated, recoil lug stays unless it's a ball of rust around it. Then you have to make the tool.

[72 usmc]

Band threads are most likely stripped so the Turk gunsmith just pinged a screw down. I'd leave it. If you must remove the action you punch it out or drill it out and be sure to have an aged screw or a new band & screw with threads intact as a replacement part. Do not mess with the buggered recoil lug. It was messed with and also pinged. Leave it as is, it is not necessary to mess with to remove the action. If new to surplus rifles may I suggest a reference: A Collector's Guide to Military Rifle Disassembly and Reassembly Paperback 2007 by Stuart C. Mowbray and Joe Puleo. Mowbray Publishing!

A Collectors Guide to Military Rifle Disassembly and Reassembly: Stuart C. Mowbray and Joe Puleo: 9781931464321: Amazon.com: Books


Trick is to find a correct screw that matches the threads in the intact band:
https://www.libertytreecollectors.co...idproduct=1717

[Aragorn243]

I love that book. I have its companion for handguns also.

[72 usmc]

My question is why fix something that is not broke? Clean the M38 Turk Mauser rifle and leave it in the wood. I'd be more concerned about headspace and if the bolt does not match as well as the bore condition. Some rifles are best left not taken out of the wood. ID each firearm, check for matching bolt and bore condition, then all matching, and write information on a tag. Clean the bolt & bore and oil. The old owner most likely had a record book with serial number, ID, and facts such as all matching, if rare, ammo type, bore condition, if refinished, and price paid and where it was purchased. Most save bill of sale. Maybe even an old C&R book?

Clean the bores and bolts, leave wood as is. Most do not want buggered up screws or refinished or waxed wood. Most buyers want a clean bore to see what they are getting. If it's me , I want a matching bolt and an intact non refinished or over cleaned stock. Get the correct sling and bayonets for the firearm. Best to ID and leave as found if selling. That is my 2 cents of info.

[82Trooper]

Yes thank you all for your input. I am not going to remove the wood...that makes sense. I am mechanically curious by nature and simply wanted to understand the process before I do anything. I like to come here and ask questions first, then forge ahead a little better equipped knowledge-wise.

In looking at the overall condition, I am OK Not to separate the pieces, and possibly make it look less original. I am giving it a thorough cleaning and once over....I am Ok to help be caretaker...not repairer/restorer or worst case...the "screwer-upper" of such items. I like original, as clearly do many of you. And I like the "potential" hypothetical story of some Turkish armorer making do with parts on hand to keep it serviceable. I often wonder "if this could talk..." and this all keeps me interested.

Thanks for the solid advice and caution, and for sharing you knowledge...all of you.

Mike

---------- Post added at 08:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:06 PM ----------

PS...that book looks great...it's on my Amazon Wishlist until I can check my local bookstore first!

[oldfoneguy]

In the world of milsurps instead of "screwer upper" we use Bubba. It can be used as both a noun and a verb. For example, Bubba got his hands on this K Kale and bubba'd up the middle band.

[browningautorifle]

For example, Bubba got his hands on this K Kale and bubba'd up the middle band.

Exactly.

[Aragorn243]

Only drawback about not taking it out of the stock is if some idiot drilled through the receiver before he put it back in there. I've never had it happen to me but know of two people that it did happen to. One found it before shooting it, the other did not and blew a massive hole out of the stock. Borescope should do the same thing from the inside if you have access to one.