750k - 800k

[DMark]

OK..., A little late finding my way over here to the new site. Nice Place.

So - - - Lets beat a dead horse!

Didn't we once considered Springfield SNs in the 750,000 to 800,000 range as safe to shoot?

Now all I see is 800,000 and above.

Have I been cheating death all of these years shooting a 790k rifle?

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Lancebear]

Probably not if you don't grease rounds, and sure you don't. And probably don't shoot with obstructions in your barrel. You're good to go, but this might start the usual sh%tstorm. But maybe not, let's see. Thinkin' maybe not.

Never know though, someone may have new info.

Those old storms sure were fun, and a lot of info was provided. Didn't participate, but sure as hell read all of that stuff.

Started a coupla' USMC rifle shi&storms. Always entertaining, and gained a whole lot of information.

Death to bad guys,

Lancebear

[Rick the Librarian]

As I understand it Springfield started to use the double heat-treatment in the 750,000 range rifles, but didn't totally switch over until the 780,000-790,000 range. In fact, a few SHT receivers apparently trickled over into the very early 800,000 range, as well.

As you said, this anthill has been kicked up before. As I've said many times before, I don't shoot LN M1903s but know several people who do. You can lower the odds by making sure your rifle is clean, function and that you use standard powered cartridges of good quality. I go along with Bruce Canfield that there is a "small but present" chance of a receiver letting go when something "bad" happens in the chamber.

[DMark]

.... Springfield started to use the double heat-treatment in the 750,000 range rifles, but didn't totally switch over until the 780,000-790,000 range.....

Thanks Rick.

I'm tracking now and will catchup with everybody soon. I've been busy with Evil Black Rifles and what we use to call the GWOT which has caused my 1903 knowledge to slip a bit.

My concern was that in the past I had recommended to folks that 750-800k Springfields should be OK and that anything above 800k was always Good-To-Go.

Now I see that CMP Springfield matches require 810k and above to shoot and that caused me to post my question. Seems like a "lawyer" limit to me and not based on actual data from the past or recent research.

And Lancebear - - - Agree..., "Death To Badguys!"

[slamfire1]

None of the reference books has ever given an exact serial number transition. They have given a range.

I believe 800,000 was an easy number to remember, so that is what was and is used.

[DMark]

..... I believe 800,000 was an easy number to remember, so that is what was and is used.....

Agree that the 1927 Army board could have decided that the 800k and up SNs would be an easy number for all of the arms rooms to track. Besides, since there appeared to be no way to figure out which of the 50k rifles produced between 750-800k had been DHT, 800k and above would have been a safe vote for the board members.

Hey Gang - Found my copy of Hatcher’s Notebook!

I think the REAL problem was the hardness of the brass cartridge cases!

[slamfire1]

Hey Gang - Found my copy of Hatcher’s Notebook!

I think the REAL problem was the hardness of the brass cartridge cases!

No, what you read was corporate buck passing.

Springfield Armory denied it had a problem because the receivers broke after case head failures. Therefore they blamed the cartridges.

SA were following two established Government behaviors: Rule #2 Minimize Scandal. Rule #3 Take the path of least resistance.

However, blaming pot holes for why your axle fell off will only work so long. Either all roads everywhere have to be perfectly smooth (impossible) or you fix the axle problem.

That's what they did.

[Bill H]

There is no question that much of the low number problems were highlighted by poor quality ammo during WWI, although the basic issue with the heat treating has existed back as far as the Krags.

I recently fired a number of samples of military 06 ammo, the oldest being headstamped WCC18. The ammo looked good, no corrosion, etc., but when I fired it, got symptoms of high pressure, although velocity was normal.

It was obvious that the case head was much softer than other examples, and I cut short the accuracy part of the exercise, it just did not appear safe to shoot.

At least a few of the examples of failed 03s in Hatchers Notebook are attributed to bad ammo.

[Calif-Steve]

At round 750,000 Springfield started making Low Number '03's to correct specs. No longer eyeballing heat color range but used pryometers for production. These are without a doubt correctly made Low Number '03's. The Army figured out by changing the heat treat process they could greaty increase the safety margin of the '03. I think that change over began at around 775,000. So Double Heat Treat receivers came into production at around 775,000. BUT many Low Number receivers were still in the production cycle and for safety sake 800,000 became the bench mark for the DHT receiver. Don't hold me to the exact serial number range and I hope some of the true experts weigh in on this rather interesting topic. Rock Island actually destroyed some Low Number receivers still in the production cycle and we have an exact serial number for their production.