USMC Unert Scopes history question

[Curt]

Has anyone had any luck finding scope history by serial number? Did the military track these scopes by serial number at all? Since all the late serial numbers seem to be in brand new condition is it safe to say the lower numbered scopes are the ones that saw use?

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[Curt]

Do we have any experts on these on the forum?

[Neal Myers]

I don't know, maybe there aren't any Unertl experts out there.

Peter Senich doesn't have a lot of information about them in his "The Complete Book of US Sniping". He does say that 5-6,000 were produced by Unertl for the USMC. Since the scopes were stamped with a sequential SN, I would assume that you are correct, the higher SN scopes are less likely to have been issued than those with lower SN's. The Marines continued to use some Unertls through the Korean War, but they also used the mass produced 1903A4 with the Weaver 330 series scopes.

You would think that the War Dept would have kept better records of to whom & where scopes & rifles were issued, knowing that 70 years later collectors would want to know. But, if they did keep historical records, they have long since been discarded.

Neal

[vintage hunter]

5-6,000 were produced

I'm as far from being an expert on these as one could get but they do spark my interest a bit. Somewhere around here I have a list of those I've seen, in person as well as in photos. It's my understanding that total production came to 1775 scopes with a serial number range of 1000 - 2775. The lowest s/n I've seen was 1016 on a Vietnam era Winchester M70 and the highest was 2759 which sold on flea-bay about 4 years ago. Number 2332 is there now. Has anyone ever seen an unquestionably legit USMC Unertl with a lower or higher s/n?

[Curt]

I asked the same question on the CMP forum, just working on a couple I discovered and trying to see if they can talk.

[Brian Dick]

I have #2754 on my MC41. It's documented authentic with a letter from Unertl Optical Company, Inc. dated 30 December 2003. It was sent back to them, inspected, cleaned checked and zeroed. They replaced the return spring which was usually removed in service and I've left it alone. It's like new. The Gent I bought it from is much more knowledgeable than I when it comes to vintage US sniping equipment and posts here from time to time as Lt1. Maybe he'll chime in if he sees this thread.

[mike radford]

Typically, such records are not known. The details of each scope are just not gonna happen. Just getting a real one is a gem. Who cares about meaningless details that can not be verified? Just like M1911s, we know so little about the history of US issued equiptment. Records were largely not kept and/or lost.

So many of these scopes went back to Unertl for new reticules and other repairs. They can not last forever without some repair. Mine is a middle serial number. It is nice and no apparent updates or repair. I had 1004 in my hands and it was parkerized, ? refurbished by the Corp?? Who knows and how can one prove it?

[Curt]

That's why I am looking, I am putting two back together right now, both parked, one is a high 1100 other is a low 1300.
WW2. ? Korea? Vietnam??? All 3? Who did they get issued too? Just would love to know. Mine appear to have some replacement parts and even maybe some hand turned replacement parts and both have signs of at least two rebuilds.

[JGaynor]

Curt I don't think you are going to find the kind of detail you are looking for in any nice clean format. However you can study the available data and sort of back into some conclusions. The sources i would recommend are:
Clark Campbell, "The '03 Springfield Era" (2003)
Peter Senich, "The Marine Corps Scout Sniper in WW2 and Korea"

[Curt]

Thanks for all your replies , it was obvious these have had quite a life I was just hoping to place these in time somewhere. I will check out those sources and post some pics when I finish restoring them.