Bren compared to its contemporaries

[Tom-M]

Curious to learn something from those that know, and have actually handled the weapons.

Ignoring the concerns of a contemporary owner/shooter today. No concern with availibilty/price of such things as mags and barrels. No concern for ammo price.

No concerns with production, no concerns with cost. No national pride involved.

Your a soldier facing some advancing enemy force in 1943. You have the standard supply of replacement barrels, mags, and ammo from a defensive position. You expect to have to reposition several times during the upcoming battle. You will have a number of supporting soldiers with you.

You can have any Bren model made to that date, any Czech vz26/30/39 LMG, or Jap Type 99 LMG.

All based on the same Czech design. All shooting a roughly equivelent cartridge.

What LMG would you want, and why? Please be specific.

Things I can think of to be considered: weight, ease of loading mags, reliability, resistence to corrosion (use of stainless steel), barrels chrome lined for durability, weight, practicality of bipods, sights, optical sights, etc....

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[Peter Laidler]

Of all those guns and aware of all those variables and variations, I'd want something that is accurate, reliable and simple. Given those three things, the average soldier will ask you for nothing more. I have been an average soldier and have used a machine gun on active service.

Can I have a Bren gun please...................... Any one will do, but if I have to be more specific, can I have a 7.62mm L4 please. The only reason I ask for a 7.62mm gun is because it uses current, readily available ammunition

[Tom-M]

No you cant - its 1943! You have no concern for ammo availibilty either.

Leaving such date - because it brings up the rimmed .303 cartridge vs. the non-rimmed 7.7 Jap and 8mm Mauser. Evens out the playing field, and gets to the technical details I crave.

Otherwise I would want a M249.

[browningautorifle]

Without doubt it would be the Bren. A Mk1 because they were made SO well, as long as it was new. The fore runner was not finished as far as I'm concerned and the Jap model wouldn't be as good because of the "perceived improvements" they would have done. I think the Bren was an entity unto it's self. Didn't need help. I'll go as Capt Laidler's #2 cuz he's shot them more than me. I'm not too bad at the mag and barrel change though.

[arado]

The MG42 was so good it is still in service. gary whoops i did not realize this was only about the czech design.

[tankhunter]

The MG42 was so good it is still in service. gary whoops i did not realize this was only about the czech design.

Yes, & it has such a VERY high rate of fire. You HAVE to carry twice as much AMMO! Bugger that lugging it round in the field. I would go for a MKIII IF, available, but failing that, a MKI Bren for the time period.
The MKIII is the lightest available of the brens series. And REKNOWNED for it's legendary reliability, acuracy, & controlability. Rugged & easy to operate, easily reloaded. All IA's (Imediate Acton Drills) are VERY quickly effected in Action too. Yep, IF, it was a choice between ANY of the Guns at ANY timeframe though. Im with Peter, an L4A4 would be MY choice also! That not just because we trained on them either. Hands on expirience of repairs, Mod's has given us the knowledge that we make this choice out of LIFE SAVING HANDS ON USERS EXPIRIENCE!

[Beerhunter]

Im with Peter, an L4A4 would be MY choice also!

May I join the club. The L4 must be the most underrated machine gun on earth.

[Warren]

Fact or fiction, but I was told by a rather reliable UK source that one of the first messages back to the UK during the Falklands Invasion was "send the Brens"...
Fact or fiction ?????????

[jmoore]

I'll be devil's advocate and put a good word or two in for the Japanese Type 99, Tom-M.

It's a skosh lighter than the BREN.

I like the bipod a little better.

The barrels are finned so they can run a little longer w/o overheating (the Czech has this feature as well).

Optics are readily available and can be employed if the situation warrants.

Runs a "mild" rimless round that aids reliabilty.


Barrel change is possibly it's weakest feature.

[Peter Laidler]

Good points JM and well delivered to the congregation but the world is a tough place for the runners-up...................

We'll have the Bren please

During the trials, there were .303" guns with finned barrels but during one series, just to put the finned barrels to the test, the trials team concluded that with quick change barrels a finned barrel was a frill, if not a complete fraud! This was due in part to the fact that the second barrel was cooling at such a fast rate that it made finning obsolete. I often quote these trials (and the maths/physics) during discussions.

The barrel change was a weak feature early on but it was Hythe that told ZB that it wanted an interrupted THREAD that would tighten the barrel up as the barrel nut was locked down and not just an interrupted RING that locked the barrel but didn't tighten it. The Infantry had Bren barrel changes down to mere seconds. Just a thought but if barrel changes are a weakness, then just look at the next gun. One that still has no successor in sight after 45+ years in the front line. It still has a QCBarrel. Got it yet......... I COULD knock the Bren off the perch of being the longest serving bit of kit in the British Army............................. The FN MAG-58 GPMG. The L7A2.

Hey Brian at BDL, let's see a picture of an L7 at full throttle......................

Good try JM but there's just something about a Bren that still winds my clock up