Savage No4Mk1*(T) Questions

[tlvaughn]

No.4 Mk.1T 0C160 is mine and it has it's original six groove barrel as installed at Savage. I've had several other Savage Mk.1* rifles over the years as converted to "T" specification at H&H and all in near new condition, "less telescope" guise. All had British replacement, five groove barrels installed and marked /45 as the one above.

This thread had me thinking so I looked at my Savage "less telescope" tonight and it also has the original six groove barrel installed by Savage. I cannot recall if this topic has ever been discussed, but is it possible that only the MkI* barrels were replaced?

[Hal O'Peridol]

Good idea but if I can be the devils advocate............ Britain was not down to invade Japan but re-take Malaya from the west coast and by land from the North via India/Burma and the Malay islands from Singapore south. Not much sniping to be done in those areas in my experience

Peter, stop being such a wet blanket!

This thread had me thinking so I looked at my Savage "less telescope" tonight and it also has the original six groove barrel installed by Savage. I cannot recall if this topic has ever been discussed, but is it possible that only the MkI* barrels were replaced?

That's what I have observed. The No4MkI Savage Ts retained original barrel, the No4MkI* Ts in serial range from 12c to 14c had the barrels replaces in 1945 with brit barrels.

[Badger]

For those members without the rifle being discussed here, there's an entry in the MKL. complete with a detailed photo montage for you to review. Note the Enfield rebarrel job and markings, plus the uniquely marked transit chest they were repacked in.

1942 No.4 Mk1*(T) Savage Sniper Rifle (less scope)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)(Click PIC to Enlarge)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Regards,
Doug

[Peter Laidler]

My only suggestion to those rifles having '45 dated barrels is that they went back to Weedon (they ALL went back to the Receiving depot at BOD Weedon to be made up into the CES as we know it). A post war in-inspector there has noted that they couldn't be issued less the telescope and in any case, being (I presume....) 2 groove barrels, didn't meet the No4T 'standard' criteria........, that being the 'standard' 5 groove barrel. So they've been diverted to the big workshop there to have the barrels changed. Alas, the 5 groove barrel criteria was relaxed during the war and althiough we can find no record of it in the LoC's, H&H records (but it wouldn't affect H&H anyway), SAI's or the very first and later EMER's, the info hadn't been passed down.

So they get barrels changed and go back into Ordnance stockpiles awaiting................, well, whatever it was they were there for! Come the mid to late 50's, Weedon was getting set for closure and this redundant stuff is simply disposed of.

That's only my thought, having never seen a T/less one in my service - but then again, I wouldn't! Knowing the way the system has worked since the early 60's, that is the only reason I can think of for the T/less rifles, finished at the end of production/conversion after the contracts were completed in 1946 being fitted with 45 dated barrels.

Here endeth the lesson........

[gsthreeeight]

I noticed the inspectors stamp on the buttstock of the Savage from the Knowledge Library (images 93 & 94). It appears similar to and is oriented the same as one of the two stamps that are present on the buttstock of my rifle.

Might there be any correlation between these inspectors marks and the location where the 5 groove barrels were installed?

[Brian Dick]

Those are Enfield inspector's marks. As mentioned before, there were roving inspectors present at H&H and Weedon as Peter has summized. This all makes perfect sense now. The "less telescope" rifles, both Savage and BSA were shipped to the disposals unit at Donnington, (I'm guessing), completed with the addition of a a telescope and No.8 scope case, then surplused onto the civilian market. In the 1960's, these rifles came to North America via places like Interarms, Klines in Chicago, Hercules Surplus in Toronto, etc. I've got a perfect one imported by Hercules Surplus for sale on my website with good pictures that all correlate with this thread. The funny part is; the Army being the Army, (doesn't matter which one), is that when the L42 program came into play, there weren't enough excellent condition rifles to convert and some minor relaxation of the standards were implemeted as discussed by Peter in previous threads. They sent a good quantity of the newish rifles over here!

[gsthreeeight]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your contributions and comments regarding the Savage Mk1*. It adds a lot to making an old rifle more interesting.

Thank you, Badger, for getting me started on this Forum. It's a wonderful place to visit and enjoy the accumulated first hand knowledge of so many fine Members.

Regards,

GS38