Proper Rear Sight for Long Branch No4 MK1*

[Banjo1928]

Hi, new to the group and new to Enfields. I have a 1944 No4 MK1* manufactured at the Long Branch arsenal. It has the small flip sight at the rear that says 300 and then flips to 600. I was looking for the proper ladder type sight (if there is such a thing). I'm told the best is of course is the machined ladder with the micro adjust, but I'm also told the the No4 MK1* was built with an eye towards cost so the correct ladder sight would be the stamped version. Is the MKIII stamped sight correct for the 1944 or is the little flip sight it came with what they were equipping them with? I saw a couple on eBay that had the A inside the C for Canada or the Canadian arsenal, but I was thinking that was a post war mark and I should be looking for the broad arrow inside the C or some other mark. There was one on eBay that I thought correct but my best bid was beaten into the dust by somebody who wanted it way more than me. Any help or guidance on this would be appreciated. Oh, the Enfield shoots great with the sight it has, but it the receiver just looks like it should have something more on it than that little flippy thing.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Brian Dick]

The Mk.II flip sight is correct as is the early Mk.III stamped adjustable type.

[Seaspriter]

It has the small flip sight.
The Mk.II flip sight is correct as is the early Mk.III stamped adjustable type.

The Mk.II flip sight is correct as is the early Mk.III stamped adjustable type.

Brian Dick is one of the top authorities on Long Branch Enfields, so take his word for it.

What was done in the factory may have been modified in the field. It would not be unusual for a combat soldier whose weapon had a MkII sight to find a mangled Enfield hit during battle and scavenge the derelict weapon for a MkI sight, especially if his life depended upon killing the enemy at long range. (As a combat Vietnam vet I saw and did this kind of thing more than a few times. Any edge you can get in war may save your life!)

But as far as restoration goes, what's good for car restoration -- add every accessory and upgrade you can find -- is not really great rifle restoration. Keep the gun in "as- original" condition as possible. If there are missing parts, or parts replaced by a "Bubba" or a "Bignorant," return it to original if you can. Leave the flip sight on the gun. Remember, you are an "heirloom custodian" preserving the gun for posterity. If you change the sight you are just a faker perpetrating a fraud on your grandchildren and causing confusion for future historians.

Robert

[Banjo1928]

Thanks for the info. I'm 58 but when it comes to anything mechanical I always have a teenager's desire to tinker (like you said like it was a car) but I know you are correct it should be left as is. But I am gonna get some of the cosmoline off the inside, it was packed all along the stock like the barrel was bedded into the stock by slathering it first with cosmo.

[Brian Dick]

Just make sure you paint the underlying metal with grease again after you clean and inspect it before you put it back together. There was a reason this was done. Don't be bashful about treating the wood with some raw linseed oil too while you have it apart. As for the sight, change it if you like but if it shoots great my advice would be "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". One of my favorite rifles is a well used New Zealand issue '43 Long Branch, my very first Long Branch No.4 as a matter of fact. When I was a kid, the first thing I did was change the Mk.II sight for a Mk.1, I've since changed it back to the Mk.2 as original and it's still one of my favorite rifles to shoot.

[Seaspriter]

You can never do damage treating your gun with Raw Linseed Oil (RLO). It has been used for years and is what was used in the battle-field. But RLO presents a dilemma, because it is notorious for turning yellow, then brown, then muddy. And, because it never really "hardens," it collects dirt and dust.

I have several guns that my father showed me how to restore in the 1950s (including the Enfield he bought for $12). We slathered them with RLO. It preserved the wood for years, but now, nearly sixty years later the guns look sickly and decrepit. In retrospect, we should have (at least) used Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO), which polymerizes and has a semi-hard finish, which is more resistant to turning brown and collecting dirt than RLO. After the BLO, I have often put a final coat of BriWax or Tung Oil over the wood to keep the finish more durable.

If you want to see more about the "Do's and Don'ts" of restoring (NOT "refinishing") an old Enfield's furniture, you can go to this link: Dropbox - Laws Principles of Restoration V1.0.pdf
At the end there is a section on removing cosmoline.

Best of Luck, Robert

[Peter Laidler]

Sorry to disagree openly seaspriter but the British and Commonwealth Armies Armourers have been using linseed oil on their rifles since pontius was a pilot as the saying goes. It never did that to our rifles. In the depths of the monsoons and and swamp-like tidal creeks and mangrove swamps of Malaya to the hills and deserts of the Radfan and Libya/Aden. Never affected us like you say.

Quick apology......... Just noticed that you elaborated and suggested BLO as being better. But I say JUST BLO and nothing else. You never want to seal the wood

Annanuvverfing......... Banjo, that PX11 or XG279 grease (it ain't cosmoline.....) is there for a good reason that we've learned over many many years of making military rifles., Might I respectfully suggest that you keep it there. You don't see it....., it don't eat nothing but it's doing good 'cos you never see rusty oil!

[Badger]

In the MKL ....

Here's an entry that specifically shows pics of the various types of No.4 sights ..

Lee-Enfield No.4 Rifles (Rear Sight Variations)

Regards,
Doug

[Banjo1928]

Man you guys, next you'll be telling me I shouldn't carve my name in the stock or hand scroll work the barrel with an electric engraving tool. Thanks to all, I really do appreciate the input this is a great weapon and I truly do not wish to mess it up. I pledge to do my very best to simply maintain it. I have used BLO on other gun stocks, some it has improved markedly and others look about the same but I don't think I made any of them worse. The stock (all the wood) on the Enfield has a lot of grit and grime on it and I'm nervous about putting anything on it that might seal that in, but equally concerned about "cleaning" the wood for fear of messing it up in some way. (The internet is full of videos of guys dumping old wood into boiling water "just watch that dirt come out and those dents pop back up" they say) Can BLO be used to clean and seal, or should I attempted to get some of the muck off the stock before applying BLO, leave it like it is,? I have heard folks say to use BLO every day for a week, every week for a month, and every month for a year (wow).

[Seaspriter]

Banjo, how we all cringe every time you see a Bignorant's video on You-Tube (it's the network for the Good, the Expert, the Bad, the Ugly, and the MisGuided).

Remember, there's a difference between a gun you will use primarily for hunting, for shooting, or for preservation. If your Enfield is a "hunter" I'd suggest using a sporterized version, it's already been butchered. Coat it with plenty of linseed oil and don't worry about how it looks.

But if your Enfield is an occasional shooter, but primarily a historic arm that you are preserving for future generations (like mine which are babied on the range) then you only need enough BLO to protect the wood from deterioration -- a little is just fine, you don't need to build up layers -- if the gun isn't out in the rain, the extra layers don't do any good. (Think of how ridiculous it is to wear a heavy overcoat inside your warm house -- when just a shirt is enough.)

Here are a couple of tips I've learned about taking off the years of dirty/grimy/overloaded linseed oil that has that ancient "muddy" look (often obscuring important stampings on the stock, including the infamous DP stamps!): Use a paint/varnish remover (like Citristrip or you'll find that Rubbing Alcohol works just as fast and is dirt cheap). Just apply, and remove the gunk with an old rag. Then apply again, this time removing any residual junk with very fine steel wool, which scrapes a microscopic amount of surface junk, without removing the patina of the wood -- it's the patina you must preserve! The patina is the history of the gun's use in battle and aging. (it's okay to steam out a dent, but don't sacrifice the patina to remove a scratch) NEVER use sandpaper, no matter how fine -- it gouges the wood and harms the patina layer (which may be finer than the width of a hair.) Sanding will also begin to obliterate any cartouches or regimental stamps, and take off any of the original stain that may remain on the wood.

Next, apply a 50/50 solution of turpentine/BLO for the first coat to get the BLO (you could use RLO at this point, if it makes you feel authentic) deep into the pores of the wood. Use either a small brush or a nylon stocking (neither will leave lint on the stock). Once fully absorbed, spot apply to places that are absorbing a lot (these will be dull in appearance). Then apply a coat of 100% BLO and let it sit for a while, and then spread BLO that is on the surface into the areas that are still absorbing the BLO (you could soak in a vat of BLO for a while as an alternative).

Then rub everything off with a lint-free (usually synthetic such as an old stocking) cloth, using pressure to create heat that will polymerize (harden) the surface so it wont have a build up of semi-sticky finish. (If you are going to apply stain, just wipe off the excess, so the stain will have an even surface for application).

If you have a wide variety of woods (walnut, beech, birch, maple) like most Enfields, you might want to consider applying an oil-based stain if appropriate at this stage to create some visual harmony. (I've used a variety of stains from Venetian Red with Burnt Sienna to Red Mahogany to get the right color -- try to match the colour of what still remains on the stock.) The colour should resemble the gun in this thread Savage No.4MkI* Don't overstain -- yours is an old gun, not a new one. Let the wood's patina show through. [Note: this staining applies to the No.4 MkI Enfields, I'm not sure about the WWI and Lithgow Enfields. From my experience the MKII Enfields and the post-war FTR Enfields used Beech (primarily? or exclusively? -- help me here experts); there was never a stain applied, thus a much lighter appearance.]

After staining (let it dry a day or two), you could either: 1) apply a light coat of BLO and rub down to polymerize the surface, 2) apply Briwax, which is used by the finest museums in the world to treat their treasures (it breathes and doesn't "seal" the wood", or 3) apply a light coat of Tung Oil (which breathes and doesn't seal the wood as long as you don't overdo it with 8 coats, leaving a gloss that is just squeals).

Always remember, you are not really doing this work for yourself alone. You are an "heirloom custodian" preserving your Enfield for future generations. You should be thinking about everything you do to the gun with the future owner in mind. I document everything I learn from the league of masters on the Milsurps website (these guys are great and so informed -- thanks guys: you are the best on the internet!) on a piece of paper, which I roll up tightly and insert in the hole in the butt-stock.
Robert