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    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
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    I've had several complete, original 1944 No.4T's without the finish "T" stamped on the left hand side of the body. I've also had several 1944 No.4T's with solid foresight blocks. Both of these are a no-no in the eye of purists and I can't vouch for 1945 production but my explanation is and always will be that there was a war on and sometimes things simply weren't done exactly as the book says.
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    Yes Brian I agree....don't know exactly which area the V-2 rockets were coming down in regards to where Holland & Holland was converting the T's but can you image just getting ready to strike that T stamp on the left side of the receiver when suddenly a V-2 explodes in the vicinity.............yes I can understand how some minor details could be overlooked. Yet in our infinite wisdom as collectors 80 some odd years down the road, we would write something off as not being authentic just because someone dropped the hammer and stamp as the bombs were falling and later forgot to put that T on. If it wasn't a bomb hey it could have been whatever.......it was war and these people were only human. My eyes are pretty good but I'm going to look again for that T stamp....this time with the aid of a magnifying glass

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Dickicon View Post
    I've had several complete, original 1944 No.4T's without the finish "T" stamped on the left hand side of the body. I've also had several 1944 No.4T's with solid foresight blocks.
    Brian is about to get another 1944 Long Branch sporterized sniper for restoration (Serial #71L0279). Solid-block front sight, no "T" designation, but with original scope mounting brackets, serial numbered on the top of the wrist behind the bolt, and mounting holes in the stock where the cheek pad once sat. And no one in the Long Branch factory was facing attacks by V-1 rockets from Antwerp or bombing raids or Messerschmitt fighters. The Long Branch factory (60% women) was renowned for its quality....so what's the reason why the "T" was left off? Perhaps it was because any dimwit could see the scope mounts and scope, plus the cheek pad, plus the special stock serial number, so why need the "T" (maybe they put the T in the place where the scope pads were eventually fitted?). Maybe the "T" was added after all the accoutrements were put on the rifle and some production manager didn't want to set up another post-production engraving/stamping position -- after all the LB arsenal was priding itself in 1944 on how it had lowered production costs significantly from the 1943 production year -- so: just move the damned guns into the packing and shipping department FAST, don't waste another step, engage another person, and create another bottleneck. To put this in perspective, the Long Branch Arsenal was also reducing staff in 1944. Savage had stopped production in June '44. Long Branch production hit a peak of 31,000 units in the month of October, '43. From there on production orders fell continuously to reach 1/2 that rate by December 1944. IOW, the plant was seeing the war coming to an end and its future was uncertain. Keeping production costs low and quality high was a way to attract new orders. I would think that the plant manager was clear that adding another person/step in production was not a smart business move.

    Why a solid block foresight? Maybe the rationale was that the scope adjustment was a far better means of adjusting for accuracy and they just didn't want anyone fiddling and diddling with the foresight and screwing up the scoping process? Anyone have any other logical guesses?

    I've learned from following lots of Enfield threads on this site that there are still many mysteries, contradictions, and anomolies that we have yet to unscramble (Like the Maltby No.4 MkI* etc., etc.). Being too-tightly-wound about Enfields can produce lots of constipation and little enlightenment. You must have some tolerance for ambiguity, a very inquisitive nature, a dose of humbleness, a love of history, and a sense of humor if you want to enjoy Enfields. Devoid of any of these, and your Enfield passion will diminish proportionately. (I'm not implying you or anyone else is deficient in these traits, just observing and musing .)
    Last edited by Seaspriter; 03-09-2015 at 09:08 PM.

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    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seaspriter View Post
    Brian is about to get another 1944 Long Branch sporterized sniper for restoration (Serial #71L0279). Solid-block front sight, no "T" designation, but with original scope mounting brackets, serial numbered on the top of the wrist behind the bolt, and mounting holes in the stock where the cheek pad once sat. And no one in the Long Branch factory was facing attacks by V-1 rockets from Antwerp or bombing raids or Messerschmitt fighters. The Long Branch factory (60% women) was renowned for its quality....so what's the reason why the "T" was left off? Perhaps it was because any dimwit could see the scope mounts and scope, plus the cheek pad, plus the special stock serial number, so why need the "T" (maybe they put the T in the place where the scope pads were eventually fitted?). Maybe the "T" was added after all the accoutrements were put on the rifle and some production manager didn't want to set up another post-production engraving/stamping position -- after all the LB arsenal was priding itself in 1944 on how it had lowered production costs significantly from the 1943 production year -- so: just move the damned guns into the packing and shipping department FAST, don't waste another step, engage another person, and create another bottleneck. To put this in perspective, the Long Branch Arsenal was also reducing staff in 1944. Savage had stopped production in June '44. Long Branch production hit a peak of 31,000 units in the month of October, '43. From there on production orders fell continuously to reach 1/2 that rate by December 1944. IOW, the plant was seeing the war coming to an end and its future was uncertain. Keeping production costs low and quality high was a way to attract new orders. I would think that the plant manager was clear that adding another person/step in production was not a smart business move.

    Why a solid block foresight? Maybe the rationale was that the scope adjustment was a far better means of adjusting for accuracy and they just didn't want anyone fiddling and diddling with the foresight and screwing up the scoping process? Anyone have any other logical guesses?

    I've learned from following lots of Enfield threads on this site that there are still many mysteries, contradictions, and anomolies that we have yet to unscramble (Like the Maltby No.4 MkI* etc., etc.). Being too-tightly-wound about Enfields can produce lots of constipation and little enlightenment. You must have some tolerance for ambiguity, a very inquisitive nature, a dose of humbleness, a love of history, and a sense of humor if you want to enjoy Enfields. Devoid of any of these, and your Enfield passion will diminish proportionately. (I'm not implying you or anyone else is deficient in these traits, just observing and musing .)
    Does your rifle have a (replacement) Britishicon barrel?

    Are there any Long Branch markings on your front sight block?
    BSN from the Republic of Alberta

    http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Enfield View Post
    Does your rifle have a (replacement) Britishicon barrel?

    Are there any Long Branch markings on your front sight block?
    Lee Enfield: Here's what I can discern:
    Barrel: 2 groove
    Barrel Markings on the Knox form (that are discernible): /45, "Broad Arrow", "Crown","QXC" ( a little fuzzy), "C", "4?". There are a few other markings that are poorly stamped or illegible
    Stock Scope Serial Stamp: 16539 on walnut stock (no other stamping on butt stock)
    Foresight Block: Solid stamped "62"

    Hope this helps unravel more of the mystery.
    Robert
    (P.S. I teach at UofAlberta -- the "Republic of...)

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    Contributing Member bros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Enfield View Post
    Does your rifle have a (replacement) Britishicon barrel?

    Are there any Long Branch markings on your front sight block?
    Barrel was not replaced.....serial on barrel matches. As far as the LB markings in regards to your other question..no there is none on the foresight block. I took the rifle apart last night and gave it a thorough cleaning, removed surface rust etc., it really cleaned up well. I will not be getting it re-finished....she looks good now after a scrub. Took a lot of pictures and sent them to Badger....he will post them to this thread so you can all take a look at the latest addition.

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