This One Has Me Scratching My Head

[Peter Laidler]

My only comment is regarding the off-site MoS/Enfield Examiners mark. The rifle has already passed every stage of its manufacturing inspections at BSA and been marked as such and been proofed as the final stage of its No4 rifle life. This was marked on the rifle by the examiner as proof that the rifle has passed his stage of the examination.

In the case of the No4T's, the out-inspection was by the MoS/Enfield off site examiner at H&H where the rifle agreed to the specification laid down to be re-designated (as a No4 Telescope) specification/standard was complete when it was marked with the D6E mark.

To mark, say, 100 or so in bulk beforehand would be a total disaster waiting to happen. And knowing how the system worked and how qualified the examiners were and the quality control of the era was, I'd say.......... Nope........... . It's difficult to think of another everyday example. But here's one. It'd be like 100 pistols going to be proofed. But, to save time, the proofmaster just stamps every one to say it's been done when in fact it hasn't. Then, later on, several fail........ and then the xxxx really hits the fan. Or at Uni where you don't actually sit your finals but miraculously pass..... Strange that....... weren't the medical students at Lagos treated to such a treat a couple of years ago........?
Or what about your mate at the passport office giving you a few unnamed blanks........

Information

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[SpikeDD]

Gentleman,

As always, I appreciate all of the comments and discussion.

I have little experience compared to many who have posted in this thread but my thoughts on this rifle tend to follow those questioning "why" would something like this be faked?

Cinders brings up the well known about stamps being reproduced to forge markings on items to increase value and desirability, Mausers and German militaria probably being one of the leading items forged out there. With that, the value difference between a bog standard No.4 and a properly marked Mauser are light-years apart, with the Mausers being at least 3-4 times the value. Some less scrupulous people would suggest that to be a "value warranted" endeavor. I honestly feel the standard No.4 just doesn't fit this criteria of forgery.

We have 3 examples, virtually identically marked, by members whom I would think are regarded as very respectable in this community. Lee Enfield saw the M47 C 1947 markings on the butt socket and immediately asked if a D6E mark was present. With 3 known examples and the likelihood of there being more, that would suggest a very busy and intent individual engaging in the act of faking rifles that are of questionable gained value.

The D6E and "S" marks. Is it safe so suggest that these marks would be in the category of "advanced" knowledge markings? If so, would that not further narrow the field of prospects that a faked rifle would appeal to?

The M47 C 1947 marking. If these rifles were originally of BSA manufacture, I would think the M47 C mark would already exist so why linish it out only to re-stamp it? Does this suggest the rifle was not originally manufactured by BSA? I have no idea.

The only thing I feel that I can add to this discussion out of experience is concerning the electro-penned markings. Over the last 10 years, I have spent considerable time collecting and studying the post war BSA FTR rifles. Having said that, the only scrap of information I can offer is that the electro-penned markings are very consistent with post war BSA markings. The inconsistent aspect is the serial number. Better than 90% of all post war BSA FTR rifles I have owned or observed had all original markings scrubbed and were allotted a new "A" prefix serial number. However, a few examples with 1955 dates retained all original markings and the original serial number retained. With the earliest examples of post war BSA FTR'd rifles being 1952/53, these rifles seem to fit in a pre BSA FTR slot. The serial number suggests "new" manufacture following the correct sequence in the serial number range.

These are just my personal observations and are not meant to contest or convince anyone who has posted in this thread. I fully realize that the information that Peter has brought forth puts most theories into the shitter.